i think i want 2 of these

[a4wdhybrid]

excuse the useless post..im bored

but i think i want 2 of these..i just cant bring myself to spend $28 on a piece of aluminum w/ a hole drilled through it..

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=133.375&Nav=8

[Yareka]

techtonics sells them too...havent checked the pricing though. I dont remember them being that thick.

[a4wdhybrid]

i need to do something

9deg pull..8-9btdc @ 20.5psi boost..:eek:

[Yareka]

just checked...$15 from them. Cant be that difficult to make.

http://www.adamsweb.us/macguyver.jpg
Richard Dean Anderson recommends meth to cure problems like these

[a4wdhybrid]

yea..i know...i dont have $300+ right now :(

[sflemon]

Ummmmm, isn't defeating the knock sensor dangerous?:confused:

I'm still learnin, be patient.;)

[evan@absolute]

Ummmmm, isn't defeating the knock sensor dangerous?:confused:

I'm still learnin, be patient.;)
yes it is. You are learning from "cap e tan holy block" there and "sir lagsalot" so watch out:p Don't you guys have some resistors for knock sensors too.

[a4wdhybrid]

full boost mid 4k's is not laggy :gt-bb-chongin:

[evan@absolute]

full boost mid 4k's is not laggy :gt-bb-chongin:
I know. It's the best I had for you.

[a4wdhybrid]

i still laughed :cool:

[a4wdhybrid]

bkr8eix..2 heat ranges colder...stock is 6e, im running 7e..any opinions?

[evan@absolute]

bkr8eix..2 heat ranges colder...stock is 6e, im running 7e..any opinions?
I don't think you need that. Did you log the knock sensors or just timing and pull? What about intake air temps? You may be pulling timing due to intake temps not knock. If you iats are up in the 60s or more then you need a bigger IC.

[a4wdhybrid]

highest we saw was 26degC i think

[evan@absolute]

well forget that then. I guess it is fall after all.

[a4wdhybrid]

i did some more logs this morning

ill post them when i get home

one 3rd gear pull all the way to ~6k and then one to around 5500 or so

neither one of them very good pulls but its better than nothing...there were some "issues" on the first pull..so i really want to take a look @ the log

[Yareka]

there has been a lot of talk lately on that other site about how the iat sensor has very little to do with timing pull. Although lower iats help reduce detonation and knock, knock is the most important factor in the equation. Some say that all the built motors(especially aftermarket pistons) create much more noise that the stock knock sensor doesnt like at all. Even more reason to go SEM.

So the knock spacers may be something to look into, but if you are getting excessive knock on one sensor, the tq on it might be off if you have ever removed it. Also "they" say that its almost impossible to log knock since timing pull is a result in the rapid change in knock, which is not detectable with the sample rate of vag. Things that make you go hmmmmmm.

[Yareka]

Ian...I'm going to get some 3rd gear logs today and if you dont mind graphing them, I'll send them to you for comparison.

Im thinking btdc, a/f, timing pull, boost, and maf.

[a4wdhybrid]

ok..thats cool..i can do that

just send me the actual log file..not a notepad file or anything ...k0mpresd@mycarbl0ws.com

i did 002, 020, and 115 the first time, 2nd pull i did 002 and 003

[evan@absolute]

do you guys have a "turbo" button on your vag com? A friend of mine has one and he says it samples way faster. I think I have the latest version but no "turbo" button. He says it comes up for him in the upper right hand corner.
If not the sample rate is a lot better if you only sample one or two groups at a time.

[a4wdhybrid]

i havent ever noticed a "turbo" button

i logged 3 @ a time this morn because i knew wasnt really going to have a chance to do a log of logging..trying to get as much info as possible in a short amount of time

[evan@absolute]

I just talked to him again and he has version 512. I have 607 so I wonder if it is just in "turbo" all the time.
also not to bring up apr stuff but have you ever seen the ecux program in action? It logs I think every channel at once. I am curious about the sample rate but it was pretty badass from what I saw.

[pinky]

"cap e tan holy block"

i prefer to call him "the ventilator"

[a4wdhybrid]

i have heard of ecu x but never used it or seen it used

might check it out..

[a4wdhybrid]

Some say that all the built motors(especially aftermarket pistons) create much more noise that the stock knock sensor doesnt like at all. Even more reason to go SEM.
going back to this comment...

i sometimes wonder how much vibrations the ecu picks up as knock is caused by the motor itself, the wastegate dump screaming, the exhaust hitting up against the tranny mount, upgraded snub, ect...all of that could be a factor

and ive never loosened them so i dont think their torque is off

[gerich]

aftermarket pistons take longer to expand than oem pistons because they are meant for race/hard driving applications and knock when the engine is cold. NVH isn't a concern on a race motor so the noise it makes during warm up is not a negative attribute. It should have little effect on the engine(knockwise) once it's warmed up. I would stay away from anything that buffers the knock sensor reading. Neither of you have aftermarket pistons IIRC so it shouldn't be an issue. The change in temperature is why I feel that the IAT should be left alone as this should help the ecu adapt to the changing temps better.

[a4wdhybrid]

my iat sensor is plugged in and fully functioning :upyeah:

[gerich]

My guess is your software is too picky and doesn't like cams since it wasn't calculated for in the the fuel and timing tables.

[a4wdhybrid]

yea..i dont think up is very aggressive

[gerich]

SEM is always the answer but it makes sense that a flash program isn't going to like the cams as the majority of the 1.8t world thinks it's a "end of the list mod". Why would a software programmer add that kind of adjustability into it's program when virtually noone was using cams.

[a4wdhybrid]

well the idle is the only thing i *know* that is a direct result of the cams...and im working on that

it was a little better this morning..it was more of a "cam" idle instead of just random misfires...it still needs some work though...i will get a stable idle back..the bouncing really gets on my nerves

the timing pull i dont *know* is a direct result of the cams since i havent logged timing pull since the dyno day and conditions were a lot different then

[evan@absolute]

where are todays logs dammitt!! You got me all jacked up and ready.:wanker: :wanker: :wanker: :wanker:

[a4wdhybrid]

my laptop is in the car

ill post them when i get home

i dont want to bring my laptop into work..i play on the work comp enough..atleast on it i can "alt/tab" and make it look like im doing something productive :p

edit: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake: :shake:

[a4wdhybrid]

this ish is really starting to get on my nerves..i dont know why i bother :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

020 = 12deg...wtf :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack:

[Ak-Abe]

:) what's your timing setup though ?

[Yareka]

are you pulling 12 in all cylinders or just one. I'm tellin you man, throw some meth on top of what you are doing and you will be able atleast keep that timing that the up is looking for.

play with different gaps maybe?

[a4wdhybrid]

timing is set @ -3deg via custom code

i find this weird..i was seeing 2420mbar actual boost..but i have a 4.7v diode on the map sensor...last time i checked anyways

and on top of that..this morn on the first pull the power dropped right ~5500 and i *think* i saw boost drop (i was watching the road), followed by 2 or 3 misfires

i wonder if my diode is loose or ____ ? causing all the timing pull from too much boost and the power dropping, req vs act causing the timing pull and/or closing of the throttle

i drove tonight, full pull through 2nd and 3rd gear, power nor boost never dropped..it ripped

i swear..my car has to be a woman..its moody beyond belief :gt-bb-chongin:

logs from this morn

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/020_10_24.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/003_10_24.jpg

[a4wdhybrid]

2490mbar

edit: i came up w/ 2490mbar is 20.874 psi converted from absolute..which is about dead on what im running

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/req_vs_act.jpg

[Yareka]

I didnt get a chance to log today...the flu is kicking my ass, especially when I have to be up @ 5 to unload a truck in freezing temps:puking:

As far as boost, thats about right...I'm seeing 2250 millibars max which put me at 19.5psi spike. My guage is telling me the same as vag.

I dunno man...the timing goes to shit as soon as you get into boost. why were you running a diode? Does the up software freak out if you go above 20? You arent even close to maxing out the maf, so theres no reason to try the larger housings you have.

[Yareka]

2490mbar

edit: i came up w/ 2490mbar is 20.874 psi converted from absolute..which is about dead on what im running

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/req_vs_act.jpg


liar liar pants on fire....full spool by mid 4k. ^I dont think so:D

[a4wdhybrid]

when i had the 57 trim it would drop boost sometime and power would seem to fall out

i diode'd it to eliminate the maf from the equation

and yea..as soon as full boost hits the ecu goes crazy :smack:

[evan@absolute]

how much boost are you running? It looks like your software is looking for around 15 btc which will be hard to get with big boost on 93 oct. I think you are making lots of boost and the cams are flowing so much that it is really packing it in at 4500rpms. Why not turn down the boost a little and see what happens. . Then you might be abe to get some timing back. I bet with the cams you would still make more power with less boost.
edit nevermind you fukers posted like 4 posts while I was typing

[a4wdhybrid]

liar liar pants on fire....full spool by mid 4k. ^I dont think so:D
i saw that too :(

i was shifting from 2nd..it took a little while to recover..full throttle in a gear it hits 4k

[a4wdhybrid]

how much boost are you running? It looks like your software is looking for around 15 btc which will be hard to get with big boost on 93 oct. I think you are making lots of boost and the cams are flowing so much that it is really packing it in at 4500rpms. Why not turn down the boost a little and see what happens. . Then you might be abe to get some timing back. I bet with the cams you would still make more power with less boost.
that makes sense..the cams packing more air into the cylinders

im telling you the midrange really picked up..which is where the ecu starts to go crazy

and but but..i like boost :kissy:

[evan@absolute]

and but but..i like boost :kissy:

that's where the meth or 100+ oct comes in.

[Yareka]

from looking at some other 1.8t logs, it really looks like you *should* be able to run that timing at that boost level, considering you are not even close to maxing out that turbo.

I know you've seen this and it is the epitomy of what we can achieve but evan hasnt seen it....look at v84lunchs custom tuned ecu at 21psi...on a t3/t4.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/v84lnch/v84lnch20logs202.jpg

[a4wdhybrid]

that's where the meth or 100+ oct comes in.
yea..i know...i dont have $300+ right now :(
:(

[a4wdhybrid]

I know you've seen this and it is the epitomy of what we can achieve but evan hasnt seen it....look at v84lunchs custom tuned ecu at 21psi...on a t3/t4.
that log has been in the back of my mind this whole time :(

i bet the drop in timing is to help spool

[evan@absolute]

from looking at some other 1.8t logs, it really looks like you *should* be able to run that timing at that boost level, considering you are not even close to maxing out that turbo.

I know you've seen this and it is the epitomy of what we can achieve but evan hasnt seen it....look at v84lunchs custom tuned ecu at 21psi...on a t3/t4.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/v84lnch/v84lnch20logs202.jpg
can you steal his a/f curve also? Does he have cams? Are you sure that's 93 oct?

[Yareka]

I figured so:p

The trick is that it gains timing back once the turbo spools for top end. Hes pulling 6* max so could you imagine that top end if he added meth to the mix and had 25* timing up top. Holy shit.

I wish I had logs from today and I really wish we could have gotten logs from your car before the cam install.

[Yareka]

Its your boys up north at EPL:D And yes, he claims that log was on 93.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/v84lnch/C350258.jpg

[a4wdhybrid]

can you steal his a/f curve also? Does he have cams? Are you sure that's 93 oct?
no cams

he says 93oct

i remember reading something to the affect of "race gas timing on 93oct"

[a4wdhybrid]

The trick is that it gains timing back once the turbo spools for top end. Hes pulling 6* max so could you imagine that top end if he added meth to the mix and had 25* timing up top. Holy shit.
custom tune :(

and as far as logs before the cams..yea..i know i should have done some

i checked timing pull on the dyno back in july and it wasnt nearly this high

[evan@absolute]

look at his afr. It's low 11s in the meat of it. Is your afr 11s or 12s Ian?

[Yareka]

lots of people mentioned that you'd be able to run more timing up top with the cams....I wondered how that would be possible. This is pretty good evidence against that I suppose.

[a4wdhybrid]

look at his afr. It's low 11s in the meat of it. Is your afr 11s or 12s Ian?
to be honest..i havent even checked the wideband since the cam install..all boost gauge and tach

it was ~11.0 before cams

[a4wdhybrid]

lots of people mentioned that you'd be able to run more timing up top with the cams....I wondered how that would be possible. This is pretty good evidence against that I suppose.
good evidence against it or good evidense against a really conservative, moody tune

[evan@absolute]

to be honest..i havent even checked the wideband since the cam install..all boost gauge and tach

it was ~11.0 before cams
you are the man! 3rd gear wot not even worrying about afr!:gt-ogb-spank:

[a4wdhybrid]

hey..itll hold together..and if it doesnt..well..ill cross that bridge when it comes :D

seriosuly though..ive seen all the way in to the 10's on more than numerious occasions..i was actually thinking about turning boost up since it was so rich before the cams..i doubt its running anywhere near dangerously lean in its current state

...ok..ill check it tomorrow

[Yareka]

well...that ecu is for sale w/ injectors and maf housing and he wont get what he wants for it.
christmas is coming up...people are gonna want xbox boxes:oddeye-hellyeah:

[Yareka]

I'd refrain from turning the boost up if you are already pulling 12*....but thats just me. I'd pull that diode before I do anything else:gt-bb-chongin:

[a4wdhybrid]

im never going to live that down...:D

wideband vs narrowband..wont work

[a4wdhybrid]

im going to look @ the diode tomorrow i guess..see what the deal is

im telling you..sometimes this thing effing rips..like fast..sometimes i might as well be driving a k03 car

[a4wdhybrid]

more 002 and 003 logs this morn

also did 002 and 054

same ish as yesterday on the first pull...power drop and then misfires before 6k...2nd gear rips

could too much timing pull cause misfires? maybe the ecu is fighting itself

this is driving me crazy...that pull through 2nd and 3rd i did last night the car effing ripped...it was fast and yesterday and this morn it was slloooowwwww...:smack:

i bumped idle to +100 and idle torque to +15...started it, started a little easier and seemed to idle smooth for the short while i let it idle..find out later on i guess...i want my butter idle back :mad:

[evan@absolute]

cams =rough idle. what about that a/f. Also just for shits unplug your abs and rip 1st 2nd.

[a4wdhybrid]

my idle was actually failry tolerable the whole time i was sitting in the chic fil a drive thru a few mins ago..its idling ~950rpm..a/f is pretty decent, mostly ~14.7

havent checked that a/f yet..ill unplug the abs..see what happens

i need a passenger to ride w/ me or um..some dyno time *hint hint nudge nudge*

[evan@absolute]

um..some dyno time *hint hint nudge nudge*
better get to work on this http://www.ncdubs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1524
then we can talk about dyno time;)

[a4wdhybrid]

:rolleyes: :D

[pinky]

ian, saw your post on vortex.. are you thinking your diode is toast?

[a4wdhybrid]

great minds think alike ;)

i was clicking on this post to quote this..
ive seen a couple go bad and a buddy's car.
personally I change mine out every once in a while just because. never had one stop working on me though.
so i guess its a possibility...im going to change it out anyways..i have 4 of them left

[a4wdhybrid]

i went against everything i believe in and turned boost down some tonight :gt-bb-chongin:

[evan@absolute]

did you drive it afterwards?

[a4wdhybrid]

not yet

ill try to log 020 again tomorrow

if i run 17psi spool on the 30r will be right inline when req boost is the highest..~4640rpm..maybe i can keep some timing that way..

[a4wdhybrid]

logged block 002 and 020 along w/ 020 and 115 this morning

boost was ~14.75psi...i was going for 17

i wish i had that profec installed already

[evan@absolute]

logged block 002 and 020 along w/ 020 and 115 this morning

boost was ~14.75psi...i was going for 17

i wish i had that profec installed already
mbc+constant weather changes=:(

[a4wdhybrid]

not knowing how many turns is going to get you "x"psi w/ mbc = :(

heres what i was talking about though..right ~4640 is when req boost is highest and the boost from the 30r is right inline w/ req boost..if i have to hold 17psi to get my timing back then thats fine

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/req_vs_act.jpg

sidenotes...full pull through 2nd and 3rd gear...didnt really feel like power dropped and no misfires...im still going to re-diode the diode mod

[a4wdhybrid]

17psi yesterday and 15psi today...so i cranked it back up a little bit..i want to stay ~17

a/f @ 17psi was ~12.0

seems to pull smoother w/ less boost

also noticed that if i log 2nd through 3rd gear timing pull is pretty much instant in 3rd gear...if i log only 3rd gear, as in be cruising in 3rd gear and roll into the throttle there is less timing pull...and timing pull on cyl 1/2 is always a lot higher than 3/4

[evan@absolute]

what was the timing pull?

[zooyork155]

FWIW I've always noted more timing pull on the 1.8t when punching the throttle (cruise-WOT) as opposed to rolling into it. I've always assumed it was due to the ECU trying to cope with the rapid jump in boost whereas rolling into boost is more gradual.

[a4wdhybrid]

ive seen 12deg timing pull

2nd gear the highest is 6, 3rd is when it really pulls timing

but like i say..if i rip it through 2nd and 3rd it pulls timing immediately after shifting into 3rd gear and the pull increases the higher in the rev range i go

i see about 2deg total less pull if im holding a steady rpm in 3rd gear and floor it

cyl 1/2 are ~3-6deg higher pull than cyl 3/4

timing is already @ -3.0deg via custom code

[evan@absolute]

just to get an idea why it's pulling it what if you don't change anything but add a gallon of toluene or some 104 octane. I think it would be a cheap test just to get an idea if it's knock or what.

[a4wdhybrid]

yea...toluene..that sounds like a good idea :gt-ogb-spank:

thanks for all the help so far :upyeah:

[evan@absolute]

hell it might be the rattling cam chain tensioner is setting off the knock sensors:p

[a4wdhybrid]

i changed my tensioner already :gt-bb-chongin:

i just find it strange that 1/2 are almost double what 3/4 are

i looked up torque spec on the knock sensors and its 14.75ft/lbs..i may retorque them just to make sure

[a4wdhybrid]

randomly found this thread.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2386458