that BT beetle..

[t0ad99]

you have what?

if you can do it in a beetle you can do anything..

so the 2kNB k04 GIAC solder(I think it's really a high power k03 file that worked on a beetle, no cruise control) from many moons ago that drove my k04 upuntil recently, when i met my new friend over at monro in Cary. Is now pushing an atp gtrs eliminator. Let me add, before we continue.. In the installation photo there is quite a huge hole - I do not have this hole.. i have been tricked ;) damn golf's and there robust amount of space...

anyway, back to whats what. the charge pipe hose clamps need to be replaced - there not holding boost quite that well, I've got to hook up my pressure tester when i get home to make sure. atleast it's easier to get my pressure tester setup ;)

as for the software running that turbo AF are in line w/ the requested vs. actual, 0 timing pull, and avg 14-15deg BTDC, think that's a little high.. but driving normal, under 3k, is all i need. it's closer to 3.5-5deg. this is at a boost setting of 1bar on my avcr.

no CEL ;) i can get an inspection approved now! gotta get that done quick before I go break something else!

travis is going to see what he can do about the software.. cross your fingers..

the only thing this beetle needs is some good software and injectors... it could use butification from the NOVA oddities i have encounterd, but damn I love nova roads.. so smooth before winter :) any way, not here about that.

so - it almost sounds like If I could just pull back the timing and i would be in good shape, until it came to injectors when I start pushing it back to 1.5bar, I don't think i can just drop in bigger injectors w/ such old software...

that k04 had a nice quick spool.. i'm sure i won't miss it too much once I feel 1.5bar on this thing..

so hey nc!

[sflemon]

So.......eliminator style turbo on a New Beetle?

Interesting. Should be fun.
Introduce yourself in the "who are you what do you drive forum".

Also feel free to come out to any GTG's in NC. We'd be more than happy to see an eliminator on a NB.:D Very cool stuff.


.....Stan.........

[a4wdhybrid]

so the 2kNB k04 GIAC solder(I think it's really a high power k03 file that worked on a beetle, no cruise control) from many moons ago...

0 timing pull, and avg 14-15deg BTDC, think that's a little high..

the only thing this beetle needs is some good software and injectors...
what elim?

curious as to high you think 14-15deg w/ 0 timing pull is high?

bold = interesting opinion ;)

[t0ad99]

really, i don't know how high/low it should be - all i really have is quite a few golf vortex forums to disphere what is normal, perusing broken links to various graphs, I had the understanding that 3deg is the norm.

i'm up for information - first hand makes it a little more clear. I haven't foolded around w/ any logging or data mining w/ this car for quite a few years. so I'm behind in the times, but doesn't take but a few answers to get things moving along.

I remember that the curry's dealer told me the solder was a modified ko3 file. I tried to get more info on what exactly it was, best curry's could tell me was it's the newest file for my car, unless i wanted to do custom programming.

thw car feels fine - sounds okay - seems like there are no issues, but i don't want to risk anything w/o having more info..

it's a GTRS.. let me find a link.. http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-163&Category_Code=VVWTK

it fits - with just barely enough room - but fits..

if you have anything to add i'm up for some knowlege...

[a4wdhybrid]

more timing = more power

if you are running 14-15deg w/ 0 timing pull that is :eek:

do you have a wideband? or how are you monitoring a/f?

if you are monitoring a/f and it is in check...id crank the boost :upyeah:

what plugs are you running?

[t0ad99]

i'm using block 31 for a/f

plugs, ngks i'm sure.. it's been awhile - i tend to forget details..

i'm going back home today. I'll have to run a pressure test on some of the new angles on the charge pipe in the next few days before I boost it any more.

[t0ad99]

there is a leak somewhere on the inlet side, just enough for the whole system not to retain any pressure. maybe one day this week or the weekend i'll start digging around in there try to fix that leak or see if any of my cool spare parts makes anything easier (i doubt it)..

once that's settled, I'll do some new logs and post them. I used to push my k04 at 1.5bar all the time....right now I feel safe with 1bar having the leak and all..

I'm wondering, how much farther I can push the stock injectors w/ that GIAC file. It just seemed like everything wouldn't be as forgiving as it has come to be. hmm i'm excited for some new graphs to log....

[a4wdhybrid]

stock injectors? :eek:

[t0ad99]

yeah - that's what I'm saying. I'm thinking, if this file can push out the fuel on stock injectors at 1bar safely. That's got to be be pretty good software :) beetles have much smaller injectors than golfs.. I've got an adjustable fpr, but it's still set where I left it for the k04. I don't have my gauge hooked up, so I would get it just perfect so nothing came out the tailpipe and I could pass NOVA emissions ;)

I have some bosch green top 440cc injectors at home, I was going to put these in when I got the REVO software.

I have read on vortex dropping bigger injectors w/o proper programming will return poor results. What do you think will happen if I drop those injectors in? is the GIAC file smart and dynamic enough to compensate for the change like I hear to revo software can do?

any bets to how far I can push this file before a/f and timing go to hell? I'm shooting for 1.5b :) I'll be quite happy with that. Oh if it's just that easy..

doesn't hurt to see what happens, hmm I should run out and get a new floor jack today. my last one bit it just before the turbo install after 10years of use :)

[t0ad99]

see lazy, don't even feel like getting a floor jack. But i will make a pit stop for this cool zig zag roller and get some lift time.

Then I can run a clean pressure test - run more graphs and turn up the BOOST!

[a4wdhybrid]

yeah - that's what I'm saying. I'm thinking, if this file can push out the fuel on stock injectors at 1bar safely. That's got to be be pretty good software :) beetles have much smaller injectors than golfs.. I've got an adjustable fpr, but it's still set where I left it for the k04. I don't have my gauge hooked up, so I would get it just perfect so nothing came out the tailpipe and I could pass NOVA emissions ;)

I have some bosch green top 440cc injectors at home, I was going to put these in when I got the REVO software.

I have read on vortex dropping bigger injectors w/o proper programming will return poor results. What do you think will happen if I drop those injectors in? is the GIAC file smart and dynamic enough to compensate for the change like I hear to revo software can do?

any bets to how far I can push this file before a/f and timing go to hell? I'm shooting for 1.5b :) I'll be quite happy with that. Oh if it's just that easy..

doesn't hurt to see what happens, hmm I should run out and get a new floor jack today. my last one bit it just before the turbo install after 10years of use :)
im really sorry but your posts make my head hurt like no other

anyways...no chip tuner software compensates for anything...that is all part of the adaptation of the ecu..thats an obd2 thing

bosch green tops are garbage...they are designed for single intake valve heads and do not work well w/ multivavle heads

i run 630cc injectors on a 440cc file...bigger injectors can be run w/ a file written for smaller injectors...ppl do it and some ppl have very good results w/ it...gt-er for example

you could try something like a vr6 housing + the 440s to get the maf g's lower to help scale the fueling some

you need a wideband or some dyno time or do a lot of logging

lemmiwinks is your friend

i say that because i doubt you are going to find a bt file for your narrowband beetle

and stop thinking so hard...its allllll trial and error..you can think and type as much as you want to but will never *know* what will happen untill you try it

[t0ad99]

ok

any recommendations on injectors?

thanks

[a4wdhybrid]

either bosch green giants or the usrt genesis injectors

i swear by the 630's in my car but 630cc is a little too much fuel for you

[t0ad99]

The genisis 430cc injectors seem like the best fit for my application.

This injector is about 50% larger than my oem ( OEM I think are 282cc).

I saw some Delphi injectors too on this site http://www.usrallyteam.com/injectors.html, Travis suggested these when I went to greensboro..


know anyone who wants to buy some 440cc greentops, never been used...

[a4wdhybrid]

so..try some injectors (delphi or genesis), vr6 housing, and bump main fuel down ~10% or so and see what happens

report back w/ results

and you need to know what plugs youre running

[t0ad99]

okay - Genesis 430cc injectors on there way.

looking for a vr6 maf housing now.. (a4wdhybrid, I saw your post for 2 vr6 MAFs. I noticed one was sold, is the other one still up for sale? btw, nice glass piece in the background. my wife's is just like it, but purple ;) )

plugs should be ngks - It's about time for them to be replaced too.

I'll post more updates and graphs after I've replaced the injectors and MAF.

I found a nice article on LWinks and the software also. This should keep me busy.

thanks

[a4wdhybrid]

i do not currently have any vr6 housings

i snatch all the ones i can so if any become available ill def get them

plugs should be a little more specific than just ngk's...ngk bkr7e gapped @ .028"

word :gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

I have a kintetic MS exhaust manifold, now I didn't see the difference in space given between the stock and kinetic version. But as it sits now, the turbo is very close to the block. downshifting into 4th from 5th it sounds as if the turbo is bumped. otherwise during normal city driving it's fine.

Do you have any suggestions on something that would give an extra 1/4 inch of space btween the manifold and the block. super thick exhaust manifold gasket maybe?

The bolts shipped with the Kinetic MS manifold were much to long to use. So the existing stock ones went in there place. This leads me to belive there is something out there that would make those bolts useable..

[a4wdhybrid]

the turbo is not hitting the block

[BLK1.8T]

just sold some genesis 440cc injectors to buy some 580 genesis injectors. Wish i woulda known you were needing injectors woulda hooked you up. Sounds like a sweet car though

[t0ad99]

NGK pfr6Q

i'm not sure where my feeler guage is, but if it's any help, they are gapped as thick as a credit card, no bigger/no smaller.

http://ngk.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=3114

[a4wdhybrid]

goto advance auto or where ever and get some ngk bkr7e

ask for ngk part # 6097

gap them @ .028"

[t0ad99]

I ran a leak test a little last night and today. I fixed two small ones.. and turns out my power gasket is leaking :( so I'm not holding pressure.

getting new injectors in a day or so, guess I'll get to rip out my whole intake system now! YIPEE!

it drove well even with the leaks it had, can't wait to see what it's like w/ no leaks!

[t0ad99]

talked to steve about the power gasket, I'll give him a ring tomorrow and see if we can setup something for Friday so I can pickup a new gasket. Injectors arrived yesterday... how cool

Guess I'll be doing that Friday night, fun huh! atleast I have a garage and a little heater ;)

after the gasket is installed and injectors placed in. I'll run another pressure test to verify I'm holding pressure. Then it'll be time to start graphing..

Does anyone know how much boost one of these elminator turbos can push, safely?

if your bored on Friday night - then come on over! bring extra zig-zags :gt-bb-chongin:

[a4wdhybrid]

a 28rs should be good for mid 20's on boost

got a front mount?

[t0ad99]

yeah an abd fmic, the ic piping has been re-routed from there orignal design.. cut out a foot or so..

[B Dub 9NineTeen]

im glad im not the only one running a avcr but anywayz

[t0ad99]

got my gasket! very cool - tonight is the big night! I have declared the garage mine for the evening! GTI sit outside.. ;)

It was something like 28deg this am when I woke up, lucky I have my little heater for the garage :)

[evan@absolute]

28 what time di you get up? Itwas 20 when I left the house. GL tonight with the car:upyeah: :upyeah:

[a4wdhybrid]

i wish i could read my cluster display :(

[t0ad99]

uhh like 9:15 maybe - so yeah not really eye-booger early or anything.. but still early for me...

that's when Skye and I got in the car and it was a whopping 28deg. OUCH! - my trusty temp idiot light was blue for atleast 6 miles. for some reason I thought that 40deg was going to be the coldest I would see down here... damn.. oh well - back at my other home in Ashburn VA, my friend from work told me w/ wind chill it was 6deg! so I'm sure it's much better down here.


thanks for the luck - I'll be sure to post updates.. btw, for data gathering - atleast to me for the past few months I've been here. It seems like 64 isn't a bad road for logging.. but I don't know.. if anyone knows of a road that isn't monitored and is fairly straight and open... i'm over near the intersection of lake pine and cary pway..

until then :gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

okay - all that is done - but there is still a leak somewhere.

During the pressure test, during high psi 10+ lbs, I could feel air back behind the turbo closer to the downpipe.

I did some runs to make sure if it was just an open port dropping pressure. Boost pressure above 15lbs does not seem to hold well on the logs. A/F is at a decent level for boost w/ no adjustments to the ECU yet. (15-16 then drops to 13 around 4500.

timing is up at 14-15deg up until 4000-5000 RPM where it drops to about 4-6deg.

Timing has improved since the previous boost leaks were repaired.

Once I can figure out whats going on with this leak I'm sure everything will even out... looking good.

any suggestions on how to pin point the leak, I've tried a damp rag, but it's an akward position. Best view is under the car, but I've got to get my wife to help out and fill the system...

Charge pipe and inlet pipe show no signs of air leaks... bah

fix one leak, find another..

[a4wdhybrid]

when does full boost hit?

the car needs more fuel...13.x is too lean

4-6deg is really low for high rpm's

log block 020 and check 032

and a boost leak will usually cause the car to run richer than it should..if you have a leak and are seeing 13-16 a/f then you def need some work

[t0ad99]

graphs www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun.xls)

i'm a maroon - i didn't label requested and actual... ;)

interesting enough, it's not boosting at what I dial in - the mbc is dynamic so it'll try as hard as it can to make up for error. but it looks smooth..

thoughts?
(still have the oem maf fyi)

[a4wdhybrid]

4800rpm spool?

might as well be running a 35r

you need to log 020, 031 (i think), and check 032...might want to also check injector duty cycle since youre still running stockers..not sure what block that is though

your timing is never very high and then takes a nose dive and your a/f is too lean even for no boost...15-16 :eek:

[t0ad99]

I think I may have found an issue with the mbc connector. I'm going to run some more tests and turn up the FPR.

these are the new URST injectors not stock...

[t0ad99]

hmm my lead was bogus.. anyway..

here is a graph for block 31, 32 and 115 (left out 20 for now) MBC set at 1.5bar

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun2.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun2.xls)


I don't quite understand block 31.. Block32 is all zeros..

I also don't understand why I can't boost any higher than 16-17lbs - seems strange to me..

thoughts?

[a4wdhybrid]

you might want to try a different mbc because my 30r spools before your 28rs does

something seems out of wack

032 should not be all zeros..there should be atleast some adaptation

have you removed any factory/emissions componemts from the car?

or is anything unplugged/bypassed?

[t0ad99]

I plugged the valve that controlled the DV. and setup a line off the intake manifold for the DV. made shifting smoother... at least it felt like it did.

yeah i'm doing research on my ebc, something just doesn't seem right, it didn't act like this before... it used to spool very quickly..

[t0ad99]

okay let me stop and think about this.

During the pressure test, during high psi 10+ lbs, I could feel air back behind the turbo closer to the downpipe.

reguardless I shouldn't feel air near the downpipe when I run a pressure test. that means there is air leaking from somewhere.

this could explain why in my block 02 a/f reading the engine load % appears to be above normal.

something back there is leaking during high boost...

I'm going to try to squeeze a camera in there and see if I can get a good view from where I feel it...

[t0ad99]

jacked it back up and setup my pressure test. along the outlined area of the compressor housing air is just leaking out at high pressure..

this can't be good....so i guess I've gotta call ATP?

along the lower half of the picture you'll see some dirt along the seam. this dirt stuff flaps in the breaze of the leak....


http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/compressorleak.jpg

[a4wdhybrid]

if you think its leaking where you have the green arrows its not

its leaking where i (tried) to line it w/ red...thats where the front cover of the compressor seals w/ the backing plate

there should be some flat clamps + bolts there to keep everything tight/sealed

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/compressorleak_red.jpg

you can see them here on the turbine side the of the 30r

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/clocking006.jpg

w/ the compressor cover removed...the front cover overlaps the diamater of the backing plate

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/gt30_install005.jpg

clamps + bolts can be seen on the back of the 30r and 57 trim (left)

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/k0mpresd/gt30_install003.jpg

[t0ad99]

yes the section you outlined in red is where i was talking about. The arrows were showing where I felt the air pushing.. I should have been a little more clear.

this area is where the wastegate actuator connects. but even with it connected it leaks. the leak expands to the outlined image, plus 1/4 more up towards the top..

I wish i had taken more pictures of different angles of this turbo before I put it in..

still I have something to look for now...

thanks

[a4wdhybrid]

call atp..tell them that ish fell apart :mad:

[t0ad99]

okay - So I could check the bolt displayed below and see if it's tight, then re-hook up the actuator connectors. if it STILL leaks then I have a problem call atp.. if not.. lucky me..

bahh
http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/compbolt.jpg

[evan@absolute]

It looks like the plate and two bolts are missing in the first picture:confused: is it just me?


edit upon further review yes it is just me..

[t0ad99]

well you can kind of see the acuator plate just above..

you'll see a plate, w/ two variable holes for bolts... i can circle it.. but i'm sure you'll see it now..

do you think making the adjustments mentioned above could help? I just want to make sure i'm not trying to make the impossible happen. aslong as it doesn't hurt to try.

thanks

[t0ad99]

tightened the bolt shown on picture 2 atleast 3/4 turn. re-attached the wastegate actuator. boom no more leak. a couple leaks w/ fitted vacum lines here and there that needed zip ties, so i went out and got some and fixed those up. I'll have to do another test shortly after this next issue is resolved.)

It looks like before, the guy who installed the turbo didn't bolt down the top bolt that attaches the actuator to the turbo. Now that I have it setup w/ the actuator on the turbo I get zero boost. EBC off it doesn't move. there is alot more pressure now than there was before with the actuator bolted up.

Maybe I have to loosen the tension on the actuator?

not sure about this one.. i have a vague understanding about the wastegate, but I've got to look at that again...

okay, here is a picture of the wastegate, rod and actuator. if I try to pull this lever up or down - it won't budge. My old k04, I can push open with minimal effort..
http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/100_1886.JPG

http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/100_1885.JPG
http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/100_1884.JPG

[t0ad99]

Okay, I loosened the bolts holding the actuator mount and repositioned it. It postioned much smoother now and I am now able to move the rod with minimal effort.

I tried another test drive with the EBC off and barely do I get a 1lb of boost.

i'm lost..

- Playing with the k04, it seems there is more room to move for the wastgate then what is setup currently for my turbo as far as the angle needed to push the wastegate full open. I'm going to unfasten the acutator clamp again and see if I can get a better idea on what is causing the problem here.

[a4wdhybrid]

the wastegate rod should be fairly stiff and require a good amout of effort to get it to move

if it moves easily then it more than likely needs to be tightened some

im a little lost as to while youre messing w/ the gate anyways

[t0ad99]

The reason I have been messing with the wastegate rod positioning is because it's the only thing that has changed since before when I had boost and now where I can barely even get an 8th of a bar if that..

The actuator was designed to be bolted on the side of the turbo, like I have displayed in the photo. The bolt w/ the washers was not there before. That section wasn't bolted in before. I assumed this was done so there was more room for the rod to be at it's fully closed state. Otherwise when I have the actuator plate bolted down, it pushes the wastegate open some, leaving much less room for play when the actuator is to push the rod.

I just tried removing the top bolt and setting it up as it was, still same situation. with the EBC off, I should atleast get at least 6lbs like I used to when i turned my EBC off.

I was hoping that not bolting the top bolt and letting the plate get pushed back some would do the trick, so atleast I know what was wrong. but that's not the case. what is it that would cause the inability for any boost. can't be a boost leak, I checked the system and it held pressure pretty well.

If I understand correctly the actuator rod will push the lever on the wastegate when more boost is requested. Otherwise as it sits the rod shouldn't have too much tension against the wastegate keeping it closed... ?

[evan@absolute]

The rod should be holding the wategate closed and then push it open when it needs to to keep from over boosting. It needs to be calibrated in most cases to start to open at 5psi on the actuator hose. It looks like from your pic that the rod would be pulling straight against the arm instead of working it like a lever. It sounds like you have the wastegate open to start with.

[a4wdhybrid]

*sigh*...

[t0ad99]

As is sit nows (the actuator and rod) it is connected back to the turbo after my expierment of removing the top bolt showed no changes.

the rod is holding the wastegate closed - The rod is stretched to the point where it will hold the wastegate. If I pull the rod, with some pressure I can have it move out of the actuator will enough room to push the wastegate farther away.

The earlier image with the actuator rod was not setup properly, now the wastegate actually has the angle of a lever.

So If I run another pressure test tonight. when the system is filled with air pressure, the rod should extend once it has achieved pressure above 5lbs or some degree of pressure yes? If the rod does not move then there is a problem?

sigh is right...

[t0ad99]

I went home for lunch and re-hooked up my pressure system.

found 1 leak on the EBC valve going to the actuator, small tear on the hose. fixed.

found another leak, this one is from what looks to be the dipstick housing is cracked (now 2 pieces) no oil is leaking out, thank goodness...

I'm thinking to myself the system holds pressure much better than before when I do a test, but maybe with the car running, this crack with the dipstick housing is just letting massive amounts of air to escape? then explaning my problem?

does this make sence? the only way I can think of why I can get no boost is if there is a leak massive enough to just let air escape. what do you think?

now I have to find a new dipstick housing..

[a4wdhybrid]

fix the wastegate yet?

[t0ad99]

I've got the actuator mounted properly against the turbo and the rod to the wastegate is sitting in such an angle that when the rod extends it will push the leaver on the wastegate so the wastegate will open. I can pull on the rod with force and it will go forward to open the wastgate.

I never changed the length of the rod of the actuator, I think the first time I had it setup and took photos the rod was coupled at an akward angle pushing the wastegate fully open. I also tightened the top most bolt of the turbo down to eliminate the leak around the compressor housing (this bolt was circled ini green in an earlier post) after doing this is when I started to have zero boost.

after that, I jacked the car back up and removed the actuator plate and un coupled the stress on the actuator rod. then it laid in comfortably on the turbo with the rod holding the wastgate in a closed state. Still zero boost.

I then tried to unbolt the top bolt just like it was before the zero boost, still no progress. So I put the bolt back where it was. Then we are to-today. during lunch I checked the system found 2 leaks and was able to correct one of the leaks.

I just don't think the dipstick tube could cause this problem, I've seen other posts on vortex w/ others whos dipstick broke, but nothing about not even having stock boost levels of 6lbs..

called vw in Cary, they have my dipstick tube - So I'll have that variable out of the equation tonight..

well with that tube inplace I should have a fully pressureized system.

could the compressor housing bolt be on a little too snug and not allowing me to build boost?? that's the only other thing I changed since then.. I'll have to see if I can loosen it before the housing leaks air like before...

I can only hope that this is it - cross your fingers.. or give me a clue.. ;)

thanks!

[t0ad99]

Dipstick tube replaced. The system is holding pressure - the only leak now is from the oil cap when pressure is over 15lbs.

looking at the wastegate leaver - it does not change position when pressure is added to the system. it is easier to pull the rod when the system is pressurized.

so what do I do now. The system holds pressure. so thats good. But how can I test the actuator to make sure it is pushing the rod when it should?

I have a feeling it still won't build any boost if I drop it off the jacks and put my intake system back on for a test.

help! suggestions please...

[evan@absolute]

if the waste gate is in the closed position but doesn't move then you would over boost. It seems like you have something working backwards here. Obviously hard to tell from here. It just sounds like your wastegate is open all the time. If you take the hose off the actuator it should make lots of boost. You might carefully try that.

[t0ad99]

Okay - I looked at my k04 and it is set with the flap closed just as mine is. If i pull on the rod of either turbo the flap will open.

I got some vacum line and hooked it up to the k04 and put some air in and the rod moved. I did the same test to the actuator on the turbo in my car and no response.

so is it possible that diaphram is bad? When I got the turbo the nipple off the actuator was bent badly but i was able to reposition it. Maybe when I was moving the actuator rod around i did something to the diaphram itself?

if it's the actuator maybe i can drop it off the absolute? are actuators pretty common part laying around?

thanks

[a4wdhybrid]

you prob dont have enough tension on the rod

try tightening it some

[t0ad99]

okay - here is the deal.

I re-tested the actuator on my new turbo. i put my hand back behind the engine and my wife filled the vacum line to the actuator with compressed air and it moved. so that's okay.

I thought about what you said, tighten it. so i removed the actuator plate again and re seated it so it would hold the flapper closed and have no play.

took the car out for a spin and I am now building boost again. w/ the EBC turned off I get about 1/2 bar. w/ the EBC on, it still spools very slowly and doesn't getmuch past 1bar until way past 3k much like on the graphs before. but atleast now we know boost leaks aren't in the equation.

I can't adjust the actuator rod, to do so I would have to remove it from the flapper leaver (need a special tool to get pin out. then I could turn the rod onto the leaver connector..)

So again, back to where we were before, what's causing the slow spool up, even with stock boost pressure (6lbs) it doesn't peak at 3k like I would expect...

ideas?

[evan@absolute]

is everything set up exactly as it was with the k04 except the new turbo? ie did you change any vacuum line routing or anything?

[a4wdhybrid]

yea..i really dont think you need any special tools to adjust the wastegate rod

they are made to be adjustable..just loosen the 2 lock nuts and twist

[t0ad99]

everything is exactly the same - the only change is. The barb comming off the intake tubing to the turbo, instead of the barb being right next to the turbo inlet (that part had to be cut off of the samco hose) I re routed the vacum line that went to that barb, higher up the samco hose. I inserted it where the n75 would usally go. Since my intake track has full compression, i wouldn't think that would be a problem?

the new actuator rod is a little different from the k04. The k04 I can see where the two lock nuts are and how they would be loosened and the tension can be adjusted. on the new one, I have a similar setup w/ two lock nuts and a wider nut inbetween. then closer to the leaver there is anoter lock nut where the rod connects into the leaver device which looks like it is threaded also. I did try adjusting the lock nuts and turning the wider nut closer and farther from the turbo, but it doesn't adjust the tightness of the rod, It just changes the position of the 2 lock nuts and wider nut..

take a look at the pictures I posted earlier with the 2 views of the actuator rod of page 5. If you could explain to me how adjusting the actuator rod would work and what I would expect when I do each procedure. That way I can verify I am doing it correctly.

thanks again for your help.

todd

[a4wdhybrid]

they are made to be adjustable..just loosen the 2 lock nuts and twist
its threaded

you loosen the 2 nuts and turn the rod

nothing has to be disassembled

i already told you to stop thinking so hard ;)

[evan@absolute]

fromt he picture of the rod it looks like the wastegate arm is in the full open position. I know you said you changed it some can you take a picture of how it is now? It looks like to adjust the rod you would loosen all the nuts on there and then you could either turn the wide nut or the threaded shafts to make adjustments.

[t0ad99]

Okay I'll take a better photo this afternoon during lunch.

I totally understand what you guys are saying about the adjustment, but from what I have expierenced, it wasn't working that way for me.

the rod has 3 lock nuts and one wide nut.

If I loosen the two lock nuts on the outer side of the wide nut and then turn the wide nut, it is just a nut, so it'll thread either way just as the lock nuts. the rod doesn't turn.

I guess I could make the rod turn if I only loosened the lock nut by the leaver, so the rod can grow/shrink by being threaded into the leaver adapeter nut thing. Then leaving the 2 lock nuts and wide nut as they are, and turn the wide nut so the whole rod will spin.

unlike the k04 the new actuator rod isn't straight - it has what looks like 90deg bend.

I'll have photos of the leaver position now around noon.. thanks!

btw: what do you mean by "or the threaded shafts to make adjustments" threaded shaft?

[a4wdhybrid]

btw: what do you mean by "or the threaded shafts to make adjustments" threaded shaft?
i really hope youre not serious

[t0ad99]

"It looks like to adjust the rod you would loosen all the nuts on there and then you could either turn the wide nut or the threaded shafts to make adjustments."

to me it sounds like I have two options on how to adjust, either turning the wide bolt w/ all lock nuts loosened should tighten the rod - if it does not, then like i mentioned earlier, I would have to loosen the lock nut closest to the leaver and the widenut and lock nuts tightened togther act as a threaded shaft that will stay in place allowing me to turn the rod when the shaft is turned.

Okay - once I figure out how to adjust the rod, am I going to want to make the rod shorter?

[a4wdhybrid]

i think im done for the day...i cant handle all this...

[t0ad99]

i see

I guess I'm looking more for an explanation - to say adjust the rod can go two different ways.

also, an idea on why boost pressure builds slowly. Something like - well if the actuator rod was adjusted to be longer/shorter this will happen when NO EBC is connected and running stock boost levels.

Am i right, thinking the actuator rod not only is adjusted to provide full boost pressure allowed at a certain degree but in addition this will dictate the speed in which the turbo spools?

iteresting enough, you both say to loosen the lock nuts around the wide nut and turn the wide nut to adjust the rod. But the wide nut is not stationary, it's a nut. With the lock nuts loosened the wide nut will spin on the rod just as the lock nuts.

The only area for the rod to thread into is on the leaver for the wastegate flap, but no one mentioned looseing that nut, excpet for evan, when he said loosen them all, I'm assuming he ment that.

the 3 lock nuts and one wide nut can be seen on the page5 picture, it's the old picture of the leaver being pushed to what looks like almost all the way open (but the rod & nuts look the same).

I mentioned what made sence to me as far as how it looks like the rod could be adjusted tigher or looser. if this is wrong, I really would like to know where the rod is going to thread into for it to become longer/shorter.

It is easier for me to understand how to fix something, when I understand why I have the current output that I have now and the reason behind it.

thanks anyway...

[evan@absolute]

most of the time you have the wide nut with just one lock nut on each side. the nut has two different threads in it one end left handed one right handed. You would loosen the lock nuts and turn it either making the rod shorter or longer. I suggest loosening all 4 lock nuts in your picture. This is because if you can't turn the treaded sections in and out of the ends then there wouldn't be a lock nut. you would shorten it to make more boost before the wastegate comes into play. Be careful though cause this is a setting that should be made to a spec and then the boost control system will use the waste gate to adjust the boost. It isn't a way to adjust your boost. You need to talk to atp about what the wastegate opening pressure needs to be to set with and set it up like that.

[t0ad99]

http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/100_1888.JPG

yeah - I did some research a bit ago online about actuators - vague info, because it is specific to each cars turbo.

from what it sounds, I need to set the pre-load. So by lengthing the rod that would do so. The only problem is like you said, this is set to spec. I'll see what I can find out from ATP.

Looking at this picture, it seems you would have to loosen the nut closest to the leaver thentake off the c clip from the wastegate, then it could be adjusted. If the rod were to be spun, it would create a much larger circle, because the rod is not straight.

thanks..

[t0ad99]

atp instructions..
should be set so rod length is 1/8" too short and then pull to hook it onto the lever. It should be fully open
at 12 psi.


that c clip looks like it'll be a pia to get out when you can't see it...

[a4wdhybrid]

so whats the deal? fixed?

[t0ad99]

yeah - I removed the actuator plate and loosened the lock nut closest to lever. then at the right angle I was able to turn the rod in to make it shorter. I made it so it would hover an 1/8 of an inch over where I was going to remount the actuator plate.

went for a test drive. EBC off, spools much like I would expect now, peaks around a bar steady pressure.

It's pretty smooth - Now I am reconsidering how I have the DV hooked up. I think it maybe better to put it back as it was. (meaning before I reouted the vacum lines where the DV is now controlled by a pressue line coming from the charge pipe. I did this a year or so ago)

I'm thinking w/ that valve that communicates w/ the DV will allow the DV to leak air if the main ECU feels it's too lean.. ?

I'm going to look at some diagrams of how it should be setup. and maybe I can get a non EBC logs to see what it's doing.

(I did try to turn on the EBC but it would start to buck on spool up, figured something wasn't right, so i turned it off to where I knew it drove smooth)

[Vampire Cockroach]

glad to see you got to the heart of the problem bud. I've definitely learned some new things from this thread that will come in handy in the future :oddeye-hellyeah:

[a4wdhybrid]

the dv is not designed to leak air under boost

leave it the way it is

and what else do you have bypassed/unplugged?

[t0ad99]

only thing unplugged is the n75.

I did fix the bypass I made and it feels smoother between shifts.

spool up is still rather slow after looking at my non EBC run. max pressure comes in at 4200 RPM.. but better than before.

I'm thinking the rod adjustment is still a little too long.


midnight tinkering.. should be cold now..

then I'll do another non EBC run and see how it looks.

[t0ad99]

much better w/no EBC. very smooth very clean

a/f is a little rich up around 16

timing is in the 15-16s upuntil 4300 RPM and it dips to 6-3deg

[a4wdhybrid]

if you keep running your car w/ a 16.0 a/f its going to go boom

16 is not rich

16 is extremely lean...and its even more extremely leaner under boost

you need to log block 020

and then you might want to consider stop touching your car and read a book

[t0ad99]

my mistake -

block 20 is all zeros.

block 32 stays at 0% so I have been using block 02 for a/f.

I would have thought, adding larger injectors would force it to run kinda rich.
funny...

[a4wdhybrid]

you have some sort of issue

block 032 should not be all zero's

and the ecu should not allow the car to run @ 16.0 a/f

its not funny

do you not see theres a problem here?

you should be pulling your hair out trying to figure out why the car is running so lean

16.0 a/f will cause your motor to go boom

[evan@absolute]

my mistake -

block 20 is all zeros.

block 32 stays at 0% so I have been using block 02 for a/f.

I would have thought, adding larger injectors would force it to run kinda rich.
funny...
bock 02 for afr makes no sense to me.
here is a link to blocks on ross tech.
http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/m_blocks/001-009.html

[t0ad99]

http://www.ross-tech.net/vag-com/examples/air_fuel_EXAMPLE.xls

that's where I found the 02 formula.


-- as for block 32, the n249 developes this reading? This is the same n249 I took the plug off of a vacum line and re-routed it back to the DV.

-- maybe it's not running as lean as it would appear based on this example xls above. When the RPMS get up there around 4k a/f on my chart drops down to 13 for a/f...

-- it is funny, because everything that should work one way has been something else. But I don't let it get to me.

Another interesting topic, maybe/maybe not related. If I run the Output test from my vagcom to my car. it says my n249, and all my SAI equipment is short to ground. but I can hear each device as it's being tested. In the AM during cold start I can hear the 2nd air pump. And when I shift, the n249 is doing something.. otherwise, wouldn't I have some issues shifting...

could it have anything to do with the GIAC beetle hack. I could forsee an issue where the action is processed but not recognized I see it in Java all the time it's just annoying if anything else, why not the beetle version of GIAC.. it's not a very popular car to be chipped so i'm sure there could be some quarks here and there.. - I don't know.. that's just my idea.. but that's off the subject i'm sure.. no need to indulge to much in that..

[a4wdhybrid]

the n249 controls dv operation

the n112 controls combi valve operation

they are *technically* the same "valve"...meaning they are the same part/part #

but they are referred to differently...n249 and n112

if your n112 is not plugged in then adaptation will not work

the short to ground codes in the sec air system more than likely have something to do w/ why your adaptation is not working

which is blalantly obvious since 032 is all zeros

and im just going to pretend that you never compared your giac me7 ecu to java script

and evan is right...i never really thought about it when you mentioned it..i was more stuck on the 16.0 a/f..but 002 is not used for a/f...doesnt matter what ross-tech says..there are blocks where a/f (lambda) can be monitored using only one formula (voltage/lambda * 14.7)

[evan@absolute]

http://www.ross-tech.net/vag-com/examples/air_fuel_EXAMPLE.xls

that's where I found the 02 formula.


-
Ok I almost said without some calculations but i didn't. have you taken into account the new injector flow rate?

[t0ad99]

I did no such thing! Java and Java Script are very different.

as I mentioned before the only thing unplugged is the n75. the n112 is and has always been setup. I have another n112 valve at home somewhere. I'll have to swap them and see if the other one I have works..

"there are blocks where a/f (lambda) can be monitored using only one formula (voltage/lambda * 14.7)"

what block would this be that has voltage and lambda that I can test this formula to see what my specs are for real..

[a4wdhybrid]

im pretty sure its 031...i cant remember exactly and i dont have the info in front of me

[a4wdhybrid]

guess i should add for clarification

your car uses a narrowband o2 sensor

it reads 0-1 volts

0 being off the chart lean

and 1v being full rich

your lambda readings w/ a narrowband sensor are not true lambda readings since its not reading via a wideband sensor

if you log your a/f via your o2 sensor the values should be ~.85v (req and act)

[Vampire Cockroach]

sounds like its time to check your fuses. Is your traction control light illuminated on the dash? This sounds just like the issue I had with all the short to ground problems. Get all that taken care of before you start tweaking and running it hard. Something important such as O2 sensor or maf could not be working aka you cant get an idea of whats really happening in the engine

my .02

[a4wdhybrid]

i cannot stress enough how important it is you figure out why 032 reads all zeros and why the adaptation appears to not be functioning

and are you sure that 020 shows all zeros from 0-6500rpm?

[Vampire Cockroach]

also you said you had the n75 unplugged... does that mean electronically? plug it in electronically just cap off the ends and run a manual boost controller... for right now in the early stage of tuning i say forget that ebc crap, adds too many variables

[t0ad99]

no CELS nothing out of the ordianry..

thanks for the a/f clarification.. I'll try to run a new log today to get a better idea of whats what

[Vampire Cockroach]

no CELS nothing out of the ordianry..

I don't understand how your ecu is throwing short to ground codes, and you have no CEL...

[a4wdhybrid]

i dont understand how he can have no adaptation

032 should not be zeros

[t0ad99]

went home - took out the n112 - replaced it with an old n249 i found.. I thought I had a bran new n112 somewhere.. I'll find it.. But since they are basically the same thing why not.

didn't drive super hard, but did some logs from home to work. Block 32 now has values other than 0. now

idle O2 adapt is at -6% (steady)
run O2 adapt is between 0 and -16.4%

I tested my EBC and turned it on - it doesn't seem to want to build the boost I'm requesting - wierd..

[t0ad99]

guess i should add for clarification

your car uses a narrowband o2 sensor

it reads 0-1 volts

0 being off the chart lean

and 1v being full rich

your lambda readings w/ a narrowband sensor are not true lambda readings since its not reading via a wideband sensor

if you log your a/f via your o2 sensor the values should be ~.85v (req and act)
damn close from my logs -(block 31)
Looks like requested is ~.75v actual is 1 - .899 ...kinda rich.

I turned up the FPR after changing the n112 w/ the old n249. just incase I was crazy lean - I guess I can turn this down now...

[a4wdhybrid]

you can tell its rich because of your partial throttle fuel trim, -16%

fuel pressure should be 3 bar off vacuum

i would still try a vr6 housing

atleast youre making progress now

[t0ad99]

yes - very good indeed.

I'm going to run 2 logs on my way home, one w/ my EBC OFF and one w/ my EBC on set for 1bar w/ a 90% duty cycle. The duty is set really high and doesn't overboost like I would expect at such a high level, which makes me think it isn't responding correctly (the EBC solenoid that is).

If the Boost pressure for both logs is the same. I think it maybe safe to say my avcr solenoid maybe kicking the bucket or has kicked it..

hmm how about a few questions to fill in the gaps..

1.) actuator vacum line disconnected from the EBC getting ambient pressure will? //keep turbo at stock boost spec??
a.) example - vacum line not hooked up to actuator nipple!

2.) actuator vacum line connected directly to system boost pressure will? //keep turbo at stock boost spec??
a.) example - bad ebc valve letting air pass right through
b.) example - vacum line directly from charge system to actuator nipple

3.) actuator vacum line plugged up will - cause the turbo to overboost beyond spec limit?
a.) example - ebc valve is locked up
b.) example - vacum line has foriegn object in it allowing no air to pass through


that was fun - I found a solenoid on ebay.. just one..lucky me.. don't bid on it! it's got 5 days and starting at .99 cents! :) heheh should get it, just incase.. better to have a backup then no backup at all..

[evan@absolute]

at a glance 1,2 and 3 all appear to be correct.

[a4wdhybrid]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=vacum&btnG=Google+Search ;)

[t0ad99]

getting ready to leave to nova tonight..

I'm going to pick up those ngk plugs today and put them in. Funny these plugs aren't "meant" for vws.. atleast on the advancedautoparts, when I look up the cars it fits, vw doesn't show up.. interesting... you think?
gonna get a new feeler guage and set that puppy to .028 like you said. (PN# 6097)

on the way home from nova I'm going to meet up w/ a friend in richmond and get a vr6 MAF housing.

sometime next week I'll know if I won my solenoid or not. then It's time to turn up the boost..

cool deal

will report back when there is more to tell.

[a4wdhybrid]

I'm going to pick up those ngk plugs today and put them in. Funny these plugs aren't "meant" for vws.. atleast on the advancedautoparts, when I look up the cars it fits, vw doesn't show up.. interesting... you think?
no...seeing as how the bkr7e are one heat range colder than the stock plug...bkr6e...6e is actually the copper version of stock

[t0ad99]

new a4 MAF housing and AVCR solenoid in the mail.

will post updates sometime next week when I get back and can put the new stuff in and start running new logs.

[a4wdhybrid]

what is an a4 maf housing going to do?

1.8t?

[t0ad99]

provide room for growth - we'll see what happens, it'll be a slight bottle neck design for now.

I've got to do some planning to do on changing the inatke system to a full 3" from the inlet up.. I'm short on space, but I'm sure I'll figure something out.

I'll run some logs and then I'll do some data analysis and see what happens. for my own personal knowlege..

[a4wdhybrid]

the maf was more of a question asking if you bought an a4 maf

if it was a 1.8t housing its the same size as your stock 1.8t housing

maybe you bought a 2.8 maf..

[t0ad99]

oh I'm sorry for some reason i thought I said VR6 A4 (clearly I didn't), opps.. yeah - you read my mind.. it's kinda cloudy huh...

my buddy I met up w/ in Richmond had a 2.0 housing not a vr6, so we were like damn.. but later that evening he found a link on vortex, this guy was selling VR6 A4 MAF housings for 30bucks shipped.. sent him a message and next thing I know my housing is in the mail..

[a4wdhybrid]

$30? :eek:

[Yareka]

ian...you need to whore those out more...vortex is holding your game down.

[a4wdhybrid]

we dont swap them out very much @ work :(

otherwise i would be whoring out a lot more

[evan@absolute]

I still want to see an A4 with a vr6 in it.

[a4wdhybrid]

i wasnt going to go there :p

[t0ad99]

shush! you know what I meant, yet again.... :smack:

[t0ad99]

after a day of adaptation the ride is much smoother and my fuel trim to rich CEL has now vanished. I can get a passing inspection now.. cool.

now I sit and wait for my solenoid valve, once i get that I can run some logs and when I think I'm truely satisfied with the outcome.. then it's dyno time to see how everything looks.

then I can take a break and get some body work done and have it dressed up. I saw some nice wheels i wouldn't mind having once the bug is less roughed up looking - then the wife's gti can get my wheels...

does the R32 come standard w/ 18"s and the sport springs? (by sport I mean the US VW version they have ebiach 1" drop i think? moddest in hieght change but the cooshyness of the ride is still there?)

[j_sonel]

does the R32 come standard w/ 18"s

yes, they are called "aristos". they can also be found on 20th anniversary GTI's

[Yareka]

and they look pretty damn good on beetles...straight spokes to break up all those curves.

[t0ad99]

pondering ideas...

go air-to-water use all that room I have now that battery is in the trunk, I can get a normal bumper skirt to fit w/ an extra radiator and no signs it's turbo..

i still have my stock IC all I would really need to do to add it to the existing system is to run it through the system as it is in the OEM position but reverse so the inlet points to the front instead of the back.. i should look it again.. not sure i can do that..

i just have this feeling.. even after all is said and done, i'm going to want to crank more power out.. but I want something unique..

I even though of someway to run the AC line through a coil to provide additional cooling to the air/water IC when the A/C was turned on..

there are quite a bit of negative reasons not to go air-water.. it could even be added to the existing setup.. but what's worth the effort and time..

[Yareka]

I've thought about going a/w before just to be a little different. Had most everything priced out at less than 500 bucks. It was just that whole "extra fluid plumbing" issue and finding a tank that could hold enough water not to heatsoak after a decent drive. You would need the core, heat exchanger, tank, water pump from a lightning, and all the lines going to and from. A front mount on a black beetle is pretty pimp though:upyeah:

[t0ad99]

more pondering... you know kevin this is all your fault for having me anticpating more power when I'm not even done w/ the application i have..

http://www.answers.com/topic/twin-turbo

I have zero space.. but lets pretend i got my old k04 turbo, and put the exhaust downstream from the eliminator turbo... introduced the inlet side of the k04 right near the inlet of the eliminator and the chargepipe would meet up right about where the charge pipe from the eliminator..

seems interesting enough.. there is enough room downstream the dp.. hmm.. the oil return would still have to sit higher than the oil inlet on the engine... i'm thinking this prob isn't a swift idea.. but it would be cool to have the low end power of a k04 ontop of the elim gtrs - that would build a decent amount of CFM, almost as much as a large turbo, but w/ the lag of a k04..

a SC would be fun addition, but again, zero room for that, and for the price just doesn't seem that exciting....

i like to ponder... any thoughts to shoot this down :)

i'm not diggin' on the short term speed like no2 or meth/h20 injection.. i want something that works all the time.. i thought for a bit it would be cool to make some sort of rising rate pressure device for a meth/h20 injection but, still what very little I do know, I would think a decent amount of water would be used compared to what is used on a full tank of gas..

ehh - maybe i'll find something new.. too bad the old heated karosine a/c technology takes so long to generate cool air..

[Yareka]

i'm not diggin' on the short term speed like no2 or meth/h20 injection.. i want something that works all the time.. i thought for a bit it would be cool to make some sort of rising rate pressure device for a meth/h20 injection but, still what very little I do know, I would think a decent amount of water would be used compared to what is used on a full tank of gas..


meth injection isnt short term...its race gas on demand. And that rising rate pressure device you talk about: its already out a few years ago:laff: Most of the kits offer a progressive controller that controls the amount going in based on boost or maf readings. You can control when it turns on and when it goes full blast. I hope to have my progressive controller in this weekend with two nozzles pumping 550ml of mix at 20psi.

Hello timing:hiya:

[a4wdhybrid]

ive been so out of the loop lately :gt-bb-chongin:

[Yareka]

no doubt man...I figured the xbox gods got pissed and took you away:gt-bb-chongin:

[a4wdhybrid]

been trying to make some $$

[kcfoxie]

been trying to make some $$
5th and main again? :)

[a4wdhybrid]

if i could whore myself you think id be working @ a vw dealer? :happyspin:

[evan@absolute]

if i could whore myself you think id be working @ a vw dealer? :happyspin:
isn't that the same thing:gt-ogb-spank:

[a4wdhybrid]

if it is then im totally missing out on something :(

[t0ad99]

my solenoid is being shipped this week.. should have a tracking number here in soon...

hmm - this has to stop.. these NC dubbers keep making references to streets and areas that are like greek to me I guess there in downtown Raleigh.

I'm going to have to counter with things like 14th and Penn. or South East... Adams Morgan man what's that other place that was cool to go.. you know where some horror movie had a sence from these steps that go down to the basement of the store... damn..oh yeah - george town...

maybe I can get a translucent map of DC and put it on top of downtown raleigh.. you know like a secret decoder ring..

Federal confusion at it's best.. okay i feel better... now...

[evan@absolute]

that post sounds like you need to "back up off it and set your cup down". Don't forget the pass in puff puff pass

[Vampire Cockroach]

Don't forget the pass in puff puff pass

i think this sounds more like whats going on in the post :gt-bb-chongin: :gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

yes - at lunch it's just me so it goes, puff puff..... puff puff... puff puff.. no one to pass to but me.. must be allthe shaky crumbs gettin' to the brain!

[Vampire Cockroach]

haha a loner, eh?

[t0ad99]

-

[t0ad99]

truthfully I do it so my appetite willl increase - it does an okay job, but as you can see i don't gain an excessive amount of weight. if I didn't have to inject insulin before I ate, it wouldn't bother me so much.. but.. it's one of those balance games..

injections...
You can't take to little and you can't take too much... whatever you take, you better beable to eat for what you took, or it'll go to low.. if you take to little, everywhere your blood runs, it's achey and crampy.. eye sockets, teeth, joints whole nine yards..

as for the poor apeptite, i've done tests and stuff, it used to be MUCH worse, my BMI went below borderline w/o the green.. got some meds to help fix what we think was an ucler in my stomach after a visit to an NC doctor, she pushed at my stomach a couple times, i say 'owe' that hurts.. hmm, that shouldn't hurt.. lets try this.......

and to think I went through an MRI, endoscopy and an ultra sound up in NOVA, no one found anything.. but i did get a 30day supply of marinol in nova, that was nice, helped w/ the eating some, and didn't make me feel all dopey.. didn't need the green.. had synthetic green :) hhehe ( but both at the same time.. was kinda fun ;) )

back to work..

[Vampire Cockroach]

damn, that does not sound fun...

[kcfoxie]

oh wow, I didn't know that. My roommate takes insulin shots. I recall one morning shortly after he moved in, I was getting ready for work as always and he called my name out from his bed. I walked in and asked whats up and he lifted a very shakey hand and said he either forgot or overdosed on his insulin the night before and needed orange juice stat. I ran downstairs, filled up a big glass and came back up. I had to lift him up in his bed and steady the glass. After a few gulps he began to stop shaking. I waited about 15 minutes to make sure he was OK and then I headed off to work... that really frightened me.

[Vampire Cockroach]

diabetes sucks

[t0ad99]

yep sure is scary for the other person too - it's a wake up call for a 15year old.. I've had some spills where I don't know where I am, who i am, what I'm doing - very confusing - almost to confused to know to be scared - the main point for me, is to keep focused on the fridge or that snack i'm going for.. vision is like a strobe, you start to go in and out of mild siezes as you are trying to get food..

yep it sucks - but not much I can do about it....

I do miss being little eating a handful of candy and throwing down sodas left and right.. those were the days.... I could swim and not worry about using too much energy and having my body burn too much sugar in addition to my bolis.. those were the days...

I do not care for some of the type 2 dbs in there targeted 40year old age, who complain because they have it and only got it because they don't want to exercise and they want to eat whatever they want. This one dude who was in the military was telling me, when he got out, he said to himself, I don't have to do that crap anymore.. so he got chunky and got himself type 2 - complained about it, and still would eat massives amounts of food.

if you can control your shit w/ a pill and exercise.. be happy... but then again, us type 1's make up about 1% of the US DB population, and everything is controlled - so I can eat what I want, aslong as I dial the right dose... But no one know's how type 1 happens, it's a medical mystery..

type 2's use pills that provide assistance to bolis... It's like a boost of insulin for the type 2 who's over utilized there isoclet insulin producing cells, where they become tolerante to high doses of sugar and don't supply enough insulin....

[a4wdhybrid]

i hope i never get that ish...fudge that :(

[t0ad99]

anyway back to my silly pondering.. The way I see it - I don't mind a little extra work all in the name of fun.. From the research I have read on twin turbos, usually the turbo charges another turbo or it's a sequential setup with the manifold set in two for each turbo(being the same)..

but what if - this is my visual idea of what I was talking about before.. this seems like it would be an interesting concept. But the only problem I'm wondering about is if there will be a bottle neck or some type of restriction in exhaust flow that would cause problem for the primary turbo?

as for Y connections with the Intake after the MAF, that would make sure all additional air is accounted for. I'm wondering if the 2nd air injection was routed after the MAF it would fix the common problems I hear about whith cold idle... hmmm then the MAF would know how much air was being used... where now in my setup and OEM setups it's pre MAF

The Y connection to the charge pipe before the DV should be sufficent when boost is terminated, the DV will release all air pressure generated from both sources.

and now my fun photo shop idea.. i need one of those pen things so I can just doodle.. :)


okay I thought of another possible problem.. the k04 will charge more quickly, would it try to fill the area of the charge pipe into the other turbo even at high boost or would the basic air flow from the primary turbo be enough to direct all pressure in one direction.... hmm this is fun.. :)
http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/idea.jpg

[evan@absolute]

So I have to ask...what are you trying to get out of this???? If you want more power one thing you need is better exhaust flow. I don't think your picture shows good exhaust flow. Also the piping for two turbos would take up a LOT of room. I think finding the right single turbo for what you want is the key to happiness.:kissy:

[t0ad99]

yeah - your right, exhaust flow sucks..

what am I trying to do.. in the long run, I would say i'm trying to think of something fun and interesting that will provide more power and quite a bit of conversation and brainstorming. Also if it can be done, a system that will allow any 2 OEM type turbos to attach to a 1.8t that could be worth while to someone else too, maybe if it can produce clean smooth power.. But that's what I'm here for to test theories and if all goes well try to do it.

room is quite an issue in the beetle so all the more reason.. I also enjoy trying to make use of existing parts like a jigsaw to see if I can, "put them back" if you will.

hmmm - maybe an ideal setup for charge pipe space is where the k04 piping routes to the old existing IC track that is no longer there and nothing is in the way really... mount to old side panel IC and make some type of Y connection right before the IC sensor on it's way to the intake manifold... it would have it's own independent DV also..

intake path Y to the inlet seems acceptable..

so I really need to think of something clever for an exhaust manifold.. to allow better exhaust flow. this car is going to turn into a toy within a year or so I'm sure and I'll have a backup that's not my wife’s.. by that time I'll have built this 3bay garage out back w/ an apt up top for my older brother. He's got most of the tools we need, if not I'm sure we'll get it. So nothing is outlandishly impossible as far as creation.

But in the end there is no senesce in doing something complicated and silly unless there is some positive outcome. all in the name of fun ;)

[evan@absolute]

well I am by no means here to stop the fun so by all means. It does sound fun.

[Yareka]

in the long run, I would say i'm trying to think of something fun and interesting that will provide more power and quite a bit of conversation and brainstorming.

I'd say just having a bt beetle putting 400 to the wheels is exactly what you need...without the complexity of what you are trying to do. Nothing wrong with experimentation but you are going to run out of money/patience/space in no time and can you imagine trying to manage 4 coolant and 4 oil lines around all that piping. I cant imagine the egts thats going to create much less trying to cool down the intake charge:eek:

[t0ad99]

you are going to run out of money/patience/space in no time and can you imagine trying to manage 4 coolant and 4 oil lines around all that piping. I cant imagine the egts thats going to create much less trying to cool down the intake charge:eek:

oil I was thinking of a T off the main line going to the GTRS to also go to the main line on the k04 which will sit lower than the GTRS, but hopefully not to low where gravity won't assist w/ the oil going out into a special fitting I would have to make on the oil pan.. Space might be a problem in this reguard just cuz gravity and all, Something I would have to measure some space out for and compare when that puppy is on a lift or when I'm bored and want to jack it up.. but that could ruin everything.. you know.. because no space available...

let continue and pretend I have enough space.. The coolant on the other hand I'm not sure if it would be wise to go through the GTRS and then from the coolant OUT go into the k04 out the k04 and to the return.. maybe I would need a little heat sink between the two? or is it really the same concept as the Oil in/out?

as for the k04, if it was on an indipendent IC system and had it's own OEM IC then T'ed into the IC piping right after the GTRS FMIC and before the IC temp sensor.. wouldn't that be sufficent.. as for the k04, I really only want it for the quick spool and low end torque.. So even if I set it up on a MBC down low for a cool temp instead of the n75 ECU programming if temps get to hot.

I don't Like the idea of a small turbo charging a big turbo, that's silly. I like the idea of the GTRS and a k04 it's almost like a turbo and a SC.. but cooler...

[t0ad99]

nuff of this daydreaming... my solenoid valve was shipped yesterday from FL.. so I should get it in the next day or so! AWESOME!

more updates when that little monkey is in..

[t0ad99]

it has arrived!!!

gonna go put it in now :D

[a4wdhybrid]

um :gt-bb-chongin:

(obviously i havent checked this thread in a little while)

[t0ad99]

of course.. just bahh just look and you'll see my sigh...

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun3.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun3.xls)

you see with the EBC set on 90% that should be just like pluggin' up the actuator hose causing the turbo to spool.. i shouldn't have it set this high, I would expect it to overboost over my requested boost range because the duty cycle is at full.

that stange sudden loss of boost way up high on the RPM band.. that's just wierd..

so lemme know what you think.. i'm gonna take a break

[a4wdhybrid]

sudden lost = flipping boost switch to off :eek:

[Yareka]

bring it out to eds place on saturday. We'll get the kinks worked out;)

[t0ad99]

come to think of it, I do remember when I ran the pressure test and had the key in on ACC. so the EBC was on. at some point in pressureizing the system, i heard what sounded like a relay snapping.. it was strange. but could actually be some type of release, why i'm not sure.

also there is no emergency cut off for this ebc either. The ebc worked just fine w/ the k04... it's an Apexi AVCR very nice unit, when it works..

who's ed? where's his place?

next thing i guess I should do is get a new pigtail for the old n75 wires, so I can try one out. I guess i just snipped it off thinking, heh, I'll never use this again... shame on me.

[t0ad99]

i made a couple adjustments to the avcr settings after reading the manual again... i'll check it out tomorrow morning..

[Yareka]

who's ed? where's his place?



ed is "lifeasasuffix" and check the "rabbit extravaganza thread" for saturday happenings. Sounds like the gig starts around noon or so, he lives in north raleigh off of lead mine/sawmill.

[t0ad99]

there was some slush on the road so I didn't really push it. It did respond more quickly now the feedback settings have been adjusted. But still it's not cooking up boost like I would feel w/ my k04.

i'll check out the thread.

[a4wdhybrid]

it will never cook up boost like a k04

but it should spool well before 5k like your graph was showing

[t0ad99]

I'll run a new graph today w/ the new increased feed-back settings I made last night..

I do have to say, with this new turbo it is quick on it's feet in high RPMS.

I would think by 3k I should be somewhere around 1bar - I've gathered this from a vortex thread w/ different turbo types running a block 115 on one graph it was interesting..

I'll tinker somemore - I would hate to find out my apexi isn't functioning properly.. that would suck... last resort check is the n75.. I guess I'll save thart for the weekend..

[t0ad99]

it seems like it just doesn't want to build boost.

when I hit the gas, it goes, boost creeps along but takes forever to hit 1bar.

I can only think it's the apexi - unless there is some other reason why the turbo just doesn't want to spool much past 1bar..

i could maybe just pinch the actuator line a bit and stroll down the block and back. If the EBC is acting up, then the turbo should spool all kinds of boost.
RIGHT?

i can't think of any reason why pinching the line to the actuator wouldn't return different results.

It's hard for me to grasp the apexi is malfunctioning, because it appears to work fine and has worked in the past...

hey Yareka why don't you swing by w/ a mbc or an old n75 - take a look over in the garage... we'll order some pizza, if anyone else want's to come to the fun ;) WAHOO! ;)

[t0ad99]

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun4.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun4.xls)

there is a chart of the 2nd gear, I did some 3rd gear run too.. but this boost cut off it wierd.

When I did my test, I kinked the hose going to the actuator and tightened it down w/ a zip tie. i should do another run plug off the vacum line from the charge pipe and kink the actuator hose...

[Vampire Cockroach]

are you sure you set up the wastegate is set up correctly?

and btw, you should be logging in 3rd gear or possibly 4th with your setup, i know you are getting wheelspin in 2nd because even i spin through second with my ko3

[t0ad99]

yeah - I know 3rd and 4th are best, but I can't even boost properly in 2nd, and it still shows.. baby steps..

yeah I setup the actuator rod just like dude from atp said...

Helke if your gonna be at that gig sat bring that n75, i may buy it if it solves my problem ;)

it's almost like the wg is stuck open a bit, not sure how likely that could be, the actuator rod has quite a bit of pressure pulling that lever back...

I guess I should take the DP off and make sure that the WG is closed as it sits now.. maybe I'll get adventurerous and jack that thing up later tonight and take a picture.. fun fun

suck-o-duck-0

[Vampire Cockroach]

i wont be there unless i can get a ride

even then the n75 is still in greensboro

i should be going home soon so if you are still interesting in buying i can get it to you by next weekend

[t0ad99]

cool

i hope I find something fixable when the dp is removed.. i don't want to get stuck in a dead end to find out it's fully closed and have to put all that crap back on and drop the car and be in the same spot I was from the get go.. but atleast with one question answered...

[t0ad99]

popped the DP off AND............!!!

the WG is closed..

all back in - back from sq 1

[Yareka]

hey Yareka why don't you swing by w/ a mbc or an old n75 - take a look over in the garage... we'll order some pizza, if anyone else want's to come to the fun ;) WAHOO! ;)

I didnt even see this until now...I was stuck at home either way and I really dont feel like playing with the car right now with it being so cold out(yeah, I"m a fuckin wuss but I've spent enough time wrenching my car when I absolutely have to, so I enjoy the times when I really dont have to, word)

On saturday, I'll have my mbc and you can borrow my n75 for a bit if you need to. I really think thats the trick to you getting some damn boost out of that beetle.

[t0ad99]

saturday we can try the MBC - if the MBC doesn't do anything the n75 isn't going to do much either you know.

So I guess it's just a test if my apexi computer is having problems.. what crap. it is a nice computer, but sucks when it doesn't work.

haha i took ownership of the garage a few days ago.. since we moved to NC, I gave the wifey some finacial responsibilities, instead of doing everything myself.. it just so happens, now my record is the crappy one and her's is the good one, so she can only afford liability on my car, so i get the garage until I get a body make over and she gets full coverage on my shit.

after I left my first townhouse, I'll never work on a car again outside - so really at the saturday gtg.. there really isn't much i would do other than trying a MBC, anything else you want to SEE or change, you need to get under it, if it involves the turbo... i'm not getting on the ground unless it's in a semi warm garage that's dry ;) heheh

i feel ya' i know what your sayin'.. if you ever need to do some wrenchin' and don't wanna do it at the apt.. gimme a ring... just wait ti'll the 3 bay w/ lift is built! HAHAHHA ;)

[evan@absolute]

sweaty is that you? I feel like i need to turn the laptop upsidedown to read that post.:gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

yeah i was thinking about that myslef about the time i pressed submit.. but i'm cooked.. so fuk it..

[t0ad99]

Okay - after toolin' with the apexi interface - I found that one of the displays freezes, in addition the 15psi release is also another oddity the EBC has never displayed before. so I'm hoping and I'm leaning towards the EBC interface on it's way out. a test w/ the MBC tomorrow will help prove that, if that's the case.

2nd I'll have to put out a formal request for tomorrow's gtg for someone to bring a bicycle pump just incase the MBC doesn't do the trick, I want to know how much pressure is needed to open the wg.

lets cross our fingers and hope it's just a bad apexi cpu - then I'll just replace it and run a mbc until it shows up. :)

this madness has to end! it must work for me! i want to feel the BOOST! i want my stomach to roll :puking:

[Yareka]

todd, if you cant take the suspense anymore and you want to rule out the wastegate, just remove the vacuum line to it and jump into boost. Just do a quick blast to 20psi and let off. If that works the way it should, you'll know you shouldnt have been playing with japanese ebcs to begin with:D

Or run off wastegate pressure by running a vacuum line from the charge pipe directly to the wastegate, nuthin in between. You'll see wastegate pressure(14psi), and you can atleast wail on it through a couple of gears without fear of overboosting. You may have tried this before but I didnt feel like reading this entire thread, your posts are hard to follow sometimes man.

[t0ad99]

yeah...

[t0ad99]

okay here goes.

Charge pipe vacum hose removed from ebc valve - I plugged hose so there will be no leaks.

Actuator vacum hose removed from ebc valve, free standing hose.

I drive down the block, gun it in 2nd up a little past 3k.. feels just like it does w/ the EBC on.. no changes in spool.

so what it's the wastegate?

I removed the DP lastnight, I saw the flapper was securely closed.
the actuator bar is extended per ATP specs. it'll take some muscle and a decent grip and you can push the rod forward to push the lever that Opens the flapper.

am I missing something? i'm bothered :mad:

is this clear?

[t0ad99]

I talked to my friend that did the install.. his guess was timing was prob off, if it's building boost so late. Since I am running a k04 software, it isn't much different than the k03 then it would require less exhaust to build pressure..

so what is acceptable timing?

[evan@absolute]

what are you running for exhaust? Isn't this an atp elminator? Maybe the turbo is a pos. Was your car running well before the swap? Maybe your cat is clogged.
What are you running for a turbo inlet? Maybe it is collapsing or restricted. I wouldn't think timing would be an issue on spool as much as an issue at full boost. Maybe unplug your mafs and try it.

[Yareka]

I"m gonna put 5 bucks on your map sensor not being plugged in or not seating correctly. My car acts exactly like that when the map isnt happy.

[t0ad99]

I"m gonna put 5 bucks on your map sensor not being plugged in or not seating correctly. My car acts exactly like that when the map isnt happy.

you know I did check that (the map) last night, to see it, I remove my turn signal and it's cramped up in there still on and tight and plugged in. I replaced it this spring because the seal was bad and I had a boost leak.

yes ATP eliminator turbo Inlet is made up of a 3 90deg bends (2xrubber 1xmetal) then up to the remaining portion of my samco hose.

2.5' DP - Highflow Cat (it's been on since 2000) exhaust has been replaced since then, with another 2.5" no resinators, to a straight through 2.5" turbo max muffler..

I did alter the timing -6 now timing for block 22 & 23 are zeros.

The EBC needs to be replaced, for now I can only run graphs up to 4800, that is where I achieve 15lbs and the EBC freaks out.. the EBC has serious problems and needs to be replaced.

My car ran well before the swap, always boosting 20lbs.. w/ my little k04 w/ no power up top.. but I'm sure I had a few leaks and didn't know about until I retested the system when the turbo was replaced.

The only reason I replaced the Turbo is because the stock manifold cracked, So I replaced it w/ a kinetic motorsport manifold and got the atp GTRS turbo too....

I did find this link.. similar spool response.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2912420

[t0ad99]

I did a log. www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun5.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun5.xls)

This test was done with the Charge hose plugged off and the actuator hose not hooked up to anything.. The WG is fine, it can build boost.

the changes I made for the log made it so the WG is stuck closed, the turbo tries to build boost but there is too much exhaust back pressure form a clogged cat, by the time the turbo does build 14-15lbs it provides enough exhaust pressure to pop open the WG. This causes the big drop in boost you see.

whenever I had a honda or knew of someone in my day when they replaced the headers the cat would usually get blown away.. I'm thinking with my new header coupled with a big turbo and a 4-5year old cat.. maybe the same thing applies....

[t0ad99]

I removed the pre CAT o2 and drove it down the street, it felt a tad better..

I'm going to see if I can replace the CAT w/ a 2.5" straight pipe to see if that solves the problem. If so i need a new hi-flow cat..

my new apexi computer is on it's way. Until it arrives I'll running the actuator off the charge hose. (otherwise known as OFF on the apexi)

thanks evan for the clogged cat suggestion!

we'll see what happens tomorrow..:upyeah:

[Yareka]

why did you removed the pre-cat o2, in order to get more flow around the cat?

You may have found a clogged cat but the ecu needs that front o2 sensor there for wot fueling in a major way. Careful with that;)

[evan@absolute]

why did you removed the pre-cat o2, in order to get more flow around the cat?

You may have found a clogged cat but the ecu needs that front o2 sensor there for wot fueling in a major way. Careful with that;)
how's that??? wot is open loop. the ecu looks to the table at that point. Not that I would rip it without the o2 sensor in there much but the ecu should be using it at that point.

[Yareka]

I thought open loop still used the o2 for a reading, just not the maf. Why would the ecu need both a maf and an o2 reading for idle and pt fueling. Of course, I've been known to be wrong before.

[evan@absolute]

open loop it does still use the mafs(unless it's unplugged) to calculate load. That is how it chooses what part of the map to use. Under part throtle running closed loop the ecu uses the o2 to make adjustments to shoot for lambda.

[Yareka]

gotcha:gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_NO2.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_NO2.xls)


I notice about the same time I hooked up the n249 i started to have these problems with boost dropping around 5k in 3rd gear. the data files beetlerun3 + all have the n249 setup, the previous versions didn't and never had the problem with sudden boost loss. - I thought this was due to the EBC but I have it disconnected, so that's not the case. In this chart I plugged the n249 like it was before and ran the dv off a T from the manifold. still no change.

I even pressureized the system w/ the key on ACC to see if something would hapeen when I got to 15lb, no sudden loss of boost.

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6.xls) This log is with the o2 reconnected.

why would I have a sudden loss of boost when driving, but when I fill my system with 20+ lbs of air for a pressure tests it doesn't dump the boost like it does when I'm in 3rd gear up at 5k RPM.

Before starting this run w/ the o2, I went to go clear a CEL I got from the previous run. I thought it would have something to do w/ the o2.. but acutally it was this.. 16622 Manifold Pressure /Boost Sensor (G31): Signal too high

It hasn't re-appeared since I cleared it.. something new to look up, atleast my car is talking to me somewhat.. hmm I think my wife's AIM font and colour was pasted too... oh well


my search section of vortex links with other people with the same loss of boost issues.. so far no answers..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1819040
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3009183
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2961936

not exactly the same problem http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1940843 but interesting..


I'm looking at older charts and noticed by Throttle angle goes from 100% to ~35% at 5kRPM in 3rd gear.. maybe I should run a log on block 003 and see what it's doing..

if the TB closes partially or all the way how would that cause the pressure to drop to 0...

[t0ad99]

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_tb.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_tb.xls)

okay did block 3 and the throttle angle is 100% looks good.

Intake temp is cool.

MAF GPS drops drastically due to the sudden loss of boost.

except - this recent 3rd gear run seems to have held up the boost for a little longer in the RPMS for the 3rd gear run than the last run..

you think the inlet piping is collapsing?
would it only happen during a certain boost level?

I'm thinking when x amount of boost is delivered from the turbo it will have y vacum on the inlet. so if x is 13lbs and X is achieved at 5000 RPM or 2000RPM, y will always be the same vacum level?

how can I test this, other than taking off the inlet and going for a spin..

[evan@absolute]

to log throtle you need to log 54. I think 3 only gives you pedal angle not actual throtle angle. Log 20 and 54 together and lets see it.

[t0ad99]

this was a trashy run, I wasn't going to post it because the data is skewed, it started to rain out and got some wheel spin, no tests in the rain.

but the interesting part here is the RPM levels from Block 54 stopped at 2500 and that was it.. www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_slip.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun6_slip.xls)

That's the only reason I posted this bad run, just beacuse the RPMS look fishy.. I'll have to do a better run when it's not so damp..

[evan@absolute]

don't worry about the rpms in 54 they just do that.

[t0ad99]

How is this for fun?

I'm on my way home for lunch, and i'm followed by a late 90's white m3. we turn onto Cary Pway from Old Apex.

i'm thinking to myself, my power is going to die once I hit 5kRPM or 13lbs.. but what the heck.

I mash the pedal to the floor in 2nd, I'm not even really looking at boost at this point, RPMS seem like there close or maybe past 5k, i think to myself SHIFT BEFORE I LOOSE BOOST! so I do. BOOM into 3rd gear the car growls and tears down the street, I look up at my boost via the EBC (the EBC is just ON for watching boost levels on the one display that does work with it, mind you the EBC is not being used to control boost still) I'm way over 1 bar and have already hit 5k in 3rd gear, I'm going way to fast, the M3 is pretty far in my mirror but holding steady, no gains as far as I can see, so I let off the gas, and move into N as I approach a traffic light set on red.. The RPMS drop and I coast and brake and wait for the light.

wow - that was a thrill, it was fast and the boost didn't cut off. how strange, in both 2nd and 3rd.. But I had no computer hooked up to record logs so it must not have really happened ;)

I'll play again on my way back to work and see if I can get the boost to cut off again.. wouldn't that be wierd if it just corrected whatever it was doing - the last BeetleRun6 Series did hold boost longer in 3rd gear last time though... hmmm... wierd.. might just be a fluke, could be adapting to my n249 change.. i dunno, we'll see when we have a graph to look at.

besides I still have to re-do the block 115/20/54 run after work..

well that was fun - now time to eat and go back to work!

[Temporary]

I'm going way to fast, the M3 is pretty far in my mirror but holding steady, no gains as far as I can see, so I let off the gas, and move into N as I approach a traffic light set on red.. The RPMS drop and I coast and brake and wait for the light.

Your bug's pretty quick. Would have been closer if i didn't shift 2nd to 5th. Was gonna try to run you again but that damn 18 wheeler was in the way.

[t0ad99]

Going back to work I was able to get boost to cut off in 2nd gear somewhere up around 5500 rpm.. So the M3 incident, I just shifted at the right time and let off before it had a chance to lose boost.

still I'm feeling giddy - it drives well, even when it's not working yet ;)

[t0ad99]

Oh wow - that was you! :)

Very fun! hahah wow, what a small world..

yeah I was done after that, that right after the speed limit sign is my turn home :) (and my boost is all fuked up, gotta keep the high spirits!)

[Temporary]

Oh wow - that was you! :)

Very fun! hahah wow, what a small world..

yeah I was done after that, that right after the speed limit sign is my turn home :) (and my boost is all fuked up, gotta keep the high spirits!)

Lol. After you turned on to your street, i u-turned to go home. First thing i thought was to check this site cause i figured you were a member. Glad i was right!

I live right down the street, so let me know if you ever want help with your bug!

[t0ad99]

haha! cool deal!

gimme a shout aim is t0ad99 - We just moved to the area this july/august. always cool to meet some new people!

since I went up to greenboro and met travis I've met all kinds of new people! cool deal!

:gt-bb-chongin:

[t0ad99]

thought I would provide a nice diagram of the inlet plumbing, why and how it will be fixed. those rubber 90deg couplers are really soft, they are thick, but super plyable.. i think..

http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/inlet1.jpg

http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/inlet2.jpg


http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/inletdiagram.jpg
to fix this, the back leg of the linkage brace will be cut(red dots), it sits on top of the inlet hose as it is now. prob more than what is shown will be cut out to save on space and the linkage brace will be reconstructed.

then with the use of some exhaust pipe and a couple bends, the path will be shortend and I'll have a strong metal heat soaking pipe.. aslong as I have a model to work with, It can be improved later down the road.

come to think of it. when I did the pressure test on the system I moved the inlet pipes around a bit down there. I wonder if the change in postion helped with the collapsing. It wasn't until after I did the pressure test that the boost held up for a little longer.I did beetlerun6_no2 then did a pressure test w/ the key on ACC. then I did the beetlerun6 and the boost held up longer (400RPM more) just about.

that has to be it.... i'm still going to run 54 & 20 tonight anyway.. ;) you know my luck

[t0ad99]

tomorrow is the big day, the inlet gets fixed and i'll put my new apexi in to replace the messed apexi computer that's on there..

fun fun maybe I'll have some graphs to post too.. we'll see what happens after tomorrow!:oddeye-hellyeah:

[Yareka]

good luck dude...hope the inlet and the new ebc finally give that turbo a workout.

[t0ad99]

inlet is fixed - new ebc in.

however, the shift linkage ball joint.. for R-Left-right (w/ the 3 prongs) it broke....

so we spent more time making something that would get me home and enough to run a quick test. I'll call vw tomorrow see if they have one.

we made an extension to push the linkage brace out and down some so we had a clear way for the inlet.

test drove in 2nd and 3rd no more boost drop - no more leaky inlet either. Perfect.

i'll have some graphs later for stock mode then I'll do some boost tweaking.. My friend said he has a guy who's got this dyno, i can do my own tuning at 45 an hour.. not too shabby.. less likey to get a ticket :)

until i get that linakge part, it'll sit in the garage and i'll drive the wife's gti. just means i have to drop off and pick up the baby... oh well.. I'll have boost soon :D

later

[Yareka]

45/hour for dyno tuning:eek: Does it work:D

[t0ad99]

45 if you do your OWN tuning. From what I understood it's a new dyno this guy's got. I'll find more out about it.. lieth vw is having a hard time finding the shift linkage clamps i need. http://www.dieselgeek.com/images/unloaded.jpg I was going to call back w/ a partnumber but i'm sure they don't have it.

Most dealers I've talked to want $$ before they order the part anyway, even if it's $3.00, and they don't take CC's over the phone, big waste of my time.. dunno if lieth is like that, but most all the vw dealerships in nova (except for springfield and tysons corner, were all money hogs for price. I can save 20 bucks and drive an extra 10 miles out and get the same part from another dealership...)

- I think I'll call dieselgeek and have one shipped.

[t0ad99]

part came in yesterday. But the way the linkages are sitting, it just doesn't want to align correctly so most gears can't be found and it's really sloppy..

crappy part was lastnight my clutch slave cylinder siexed on me so I've got the out, waiting on a replacement from car quest.

oh and to top it off,of the teeth off of the linkage end well 2 outta 3 will get me going.. i was so irritated last night, i wanted to smoke.. but i didn't i just went to bed early..

took off some today to get this fixed. becky needs her car tonight until mid next week! akkk!

gotta fix

- clutch slave cylin in - shiftin in all gears okay w/ the goofy broken part. Now back to sq 1.. try to get the intake in now.. man.. what a bad place for the inlet.. all in the way of the linkage cables.. man..

mid-day update: all fixed - need to get another linkage end. shifting gears isn't too sloppy.. but it's not great. at least I have 5th and Reverse and everything between.

i'll turn up the boost and do some graphs when it's not wet out.... i'm done for now..

[t0ad99]

so as a temp fix I have been using the end of a flex straw over the linkage rod to provide a grip so when it is inserted into the linkage ends knunkle (where there is a hole) and a small hose clamp to hold it on. it's worked GREAT so far.. w/o the straw end the linkage rod would pop out after a few tries...

but that will be a thing of the past.. those silly damn plastic ends..

the geek is sending me a shifter w/ aluminum(sp?) ends.. this will be a nice upgrade..

I have a tt shifter in there now, maybe i'll put it in my wife's gti and see if she notices ;) heheh

then I can finially turn my boost controller on, it moves as it is now.

before I get to turning up the boost. Please inform me of what quality timing reading would look like, so I can adjust my timing accordingly. that's really the only area that i'm unsure about.

well sometime this week it's BOOST TIME! oooh boy..

cary people please yell now if you know a good spot to run a few 3rd gear passes..

it's too bad there isn't a track close by that you can run on when no one is there. In nova the manasssas speed way (atleast in the day late 90's) the track was used by the police for training otherwise it sat, so you could rolll out there and fuck around and not get in trouble.. it was only an 8th mile.. but still, it was nice to go somewhere that was a controlled race way...

[t0ad99]

new shifter is in - maybe i'll find some time tonight to put it in. I can also take that o2 sensor out and try another one i have.. i'm pretty sure it's a dud too - but i'm not positive.. might as well test it ;) worse case - friday I can pick up an o2 and do a couple runs print some logs and see whats up.

if things look good - i might go to feb fling, if it looks like it needs work - i'll sit it out this time and see if i can't see what's up w/ that 45/hr dyno my friend was talking about..

I'm sooo trying to get it ready by the end of the month, I've got goals!! I want to be part of BT dyno day :D that would be COOL!

[t0ad99]

shifter is all fixed, I swaped out my o2 w/ an old one.. but it doesn't seem to be that much better.. I'm going to get a new one tomorrow and do a new run and see what the a/f looks like...

I did some runs on boost and timing.. and checked out the power curve.. looks not so good.. something isn't right.. bah

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun7.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun7.xls)

:hrmm:

[evan@absolute]

It looks like closed the throttle on you when actual got to far above requested. Can you set the boost to 15-17 and do some runs? Also do some logging 03 for my entertainment.

[t0adkisser]

will do

so 03, 115,20 is good.. ?

I guess the two o2 sensors I have are bad in there own way. one I roughed up and the old one, which as an erratic idle.. where the other one was fine, but flipped out enough to throw a code.

tomorrow's runs should be somewhat better w/ the new o2.

funny thing is, that loss in power, I didn't feel it.. but then again, It really doesn't seem as slow as the power curve suggests.. did i do it wrong?

more runs tomorrow.

[t0ad99]

opps... hehe i used 'her' laptop..:o

[Yareka]

pulling some mega timing there...better throw some block 32s in there just to make sure you arent leaning out up top.

[t0ad99]

okay, going to make some food and see if my 02 is in. Then I'm going to log.
03-115-32
120-20-32

i'll give yareka a ring see if he wants to help.

you know, I noticed on a couple other timing charts w/ a big turbo, timing starts high in the low RPM and goes down, where mine is the opposite. I would venture to say I have the typical timing map for a smaller kseries turbo and a big turbo would need a slightly different map to have full potential.. but that's just a guess - I'll wait until I have some good logs before I guess too much..

time to eat!

[evan@absolute]

I already ate.

[Yareka]

I've eaten too, thanks.

No runs for me today todd. I'm sick as a dog and not going out for any reason.

[t0ad99]

uhh - I was just talking out loud about eating. But it's nice to know everyone here eats lunch too... ;)

as for help I was referring hanging around and doing logs. But your ill. too bad, feel better man.

I'll post some stuff later.

[t0ad99]

Both runs one of the couplings on the IC track popped off. the 20lb file it popped off later down the spreadsheet. the 14lb file it popped off towards the end of the graphed file..

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_22lb.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_22lb.xls)
www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_14lb.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_14lb.xls)

mis spelled the links, they work now

block 115 - 3 - 32

3:33 - got around to fixing the weak hose clamp for the IC pipe. is the TB supposed to close like that during high RPM? i would have thought it would stay open 100%. I can't find much info on vortex about TB's in general.

any suggestions for blocks to log?

[Yareka]

oops...I meant block 31 so we could take a look at your a/f. Kinda wish I had the innovate lm1 instead of the hardwired one so I could swap between cars for runs.

Evan mentioned it before but if your actual exceeds your requested you will have the tb closing on you like it does on that run. Looks like you have zero timing in there too, never seen that one. I'd really keep the boost down on this thing until you get all the bugs worked out. Just an opinion;)

[a4wdhybrid]

higher actual than requested will usually make the tb close...the ecu is trying to keep the car from "overboosting" and blowing something up

your spool is still really slow...you sure thats a 28rs in there? :p

dioding the map sensor should keep the tb from closing...not that im suggesting that though

i also agree w/ yareka ;)

[t0ad99]

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_14lb_2.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun8_14lb_2.xls)

Okay - once again the IC hose popped off again. Looking at the data, I would bet it's popping off because the TB is closing, in doing so an addtional about of compression get's built up in the IC route. Lucky for me I have a weak link hose clamp or more excessive damage could occur.

my thoughts on it atleast.

yeah I'm going to keep the boost set down and the rpms down during reg driving. I'll re-run block 31, 115 & 3.

my spool is really slow, yes i think so too, it is 28rs. thank's for the info about the diode, but i'll get there when these other quarks are solved. any thoughts on a slow spool?

i'll have another graph in a little while.. I've got to fully reconnect the IC pipe.. again.. next run is lower RPMs too, I'm not trying to get stuck again ;)

[a4wdhybrid]

if the tb closes the boost should go down since the same amount of air that was flowing through the motor keeping the turbo spinning came to a sudden stop when the flow of air stopped (closed tb)

[t0ad99]

i see - okay.

i've got the IC hose fixed up for now, but I'm going to wait until I get a new hose clamp like the rest of my IC clamps that hold on tight.

I may go out real quick and make a quick run to check out a/f low rpm..

update -

I did a run and a/f was good, always richer than requested - but there seems to be a leak now, when i was fiddiling w/ that bad hose clamp.. I've got to get that replaced before I can do to much more. a t-bolt hose clamp is on it's way to replace the odd ball weak hose clamp.

also does anyone know if the Oil dipstick holder (orange) doesn't it have a O ring? when I picked it up and ask the parts guy he said no. It leaked air when I did my pressure test when I first put it on and I ended up making an ok o-ring but not that great..

guess we'll see what happens next..

[evan@absolute]

if it's richer then requested then there probably is a leak. I would go back over that. The spool is terrible but then it takes the timing away once it does and then throttle cuts. From the requested boost I will certainly say that can't be any kind of GIAC k04 file though. What is your ecu #? Let me see what i can get for it.

[t0ad99]

VW
06A 906 032 C

BOSCH
0 261 206 506

turbo garrett GT2860RS (GTRS)


it's not a k04 file.. It should be. Curry's in Dulles said it was, even had them check the file that was on there to see if there was any better versions out there (they even have tape the ECU that says k04 ;) ). please do let me know what you find out.

I'll post a new run once I get my t-clamp in the mail, should be a day or two, the warehouses are in NC&VA.

If you want me to swing by w/ the car & ECU one night, if you want to look at the actual file on there I'll drop by and let you take a look. (solder bridge)

[a4wdhybrid]

also does anyone know if the Oil dipstick holder (orange) doesn't it have a O ring? when I picked it up and ask the parts guy he said no. It leaked air when I did my pressure test when I first put it on and I ended up making an ok o-ring but not that great..
it doesnt

the parts guy was correct ;)

[t0ad99]

okay thought so - so the leak when w/o my o-ring during a pressure test isn't a big deal....

yeah I remember a little better now, when I went to Curry's and showed them my block 115 and asked them why my requested boost didn't platue like it should instead it went up and the down.. They sent it to GIAC and they asked to check out the file. I gave the them ecu and i think they said they were going to send it to GIAC to figure out what it was.. then they had told me it was the most current version available for my car.. I got it done in 2001 and had them check it out sometime in 2005...

[t0ad99]

here i'll post my sad csv
www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/badrun.CSV (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/badrun.CSV)

somewhere you'll see an attempt for a 3rd gear pass.. but that hose clamp just isn't holding.. but I think maybe I read the block31 wrong I thought it was req/actual like 115. if it's the other way around, it looks like i'm running lean??

[t0ad99]

another sad day..

well for some strange reason my RPM's aren't getting a signal for my AVCr.. sigh i checked the wire, it hasn't gone anywhere.. always worked before.

also I got a CEL because my idle keept sticking at 1k rpm.. at idle sometimes.. the CEL was for idle speed to high.. cleared the code out.

bah./...

so evan any news on any software for me.. ?


well it's consistantly a high rpm idle of 1k or 1200 rpm ... this is retarded.. i'm gonna blow it up.. but i don't have full cov.. abh.. guess i'll drive it a little more.. damn car being stoopid..

maybe I should bring it your shop evan have you guys poke and prod it and see if you can figure anything out other than the inappropritae software.. AGHHHH!

[evan@absolute]

I am trying to get the file you should have so we can re burn the chip to be sure.

[t0ad99]

oh wow cool thanks..

I think i'm really just wigged out now about this high rpm idle it's so random. why is this happening to me!

my car is mad at me.. oh yeah - this weekend, my hood latch on the exterior of the car that allows me to pop the hood... it fell off in my hand.. it must have broken lasttime it was closed.. i went to grab it and it just came out.. I'm standing there looking at this plastic broken piece thinking.. what next... the it happened.. the hose clamp gives way, now the silly idle.. come on! BRING ON THE STUPID little bug!!

once everything is sorted out and fixed, I know some tard in a lifted 4x4 big 2 ton truck will accidentally park on my car in parking lot or something stupid like that, crushing it to a little pancake.:eek:

[Yareka]

todd...not to get you down anymore but heres some comparison timing logs I took today. I dont do excel but you can check out the raw data.

4th gear run @ 23psi and I"m on timing 5(semi aggressive timing)...pulling 1-3* throughout with meth spraying at 5psi and up.

RPM MAF Timing
3400 72.4 33
3560 82.9 28.5
3680 90.8 26.2
3800 98.9 14.2
3960 110 12.7
4120 125 14
4280 141 12
4480 148 15
4640 158 17
4840 161 14
5000 161 14
5160 171 14
5320 174 14
5480 178 18
5640 181 15
5720 186 19.5
5840 184 20
5960 192 16

[a4wdhybrid]

why is this happening to me!
it happens to everyone

everything always happens @ once

[a4wdhybrid]

20 @ almost 6k :gt-ogb-spank:

[Yareka]

no doubt...I was a little surprised by that timing too. The low maf readings tell me I really need to get that 2.5" 90 out of the inlet. Time for a 3" with 2 45* bends and see how it likes that.

550s and adjustable fpr should be here anyday now. Cams are next...:gt-bb-chongin:

[a4wdhybrid]

i need a new car

i need something new to tinker w/

[t0ad99]

my brother sent me a link for an 88 16v Scirocco for 1200 in cary 5speed..

http://raleigh.craisgslist.org/car/276052890.html

contractor dude will have my price today for the 3 bay garage out back.. that'll be cool.. 13' high on all bays so we can put the lift in there.. guess we'll just have to figure out what bay we wanna put the lift ;)


too bad my wife won't let me drive the baby in an old beetle.. she would rather i fix mine... maybe I'll change her mind later.... or she can pick/drop him off at daycare so I can drive around in my 1600cc flat four tinfoil machine!

[a4wdhybrid]

a scirocco isnt really my style

[t0ad99]

me either.. ;)

I'm going to do a TB adaptation tonight see if that'll clean up my silly high rpm idle.. atleast that'll be one less thing to worry about..

i want this beetle to run right so I can get an old 60's one and just focus on making it go on a regular basis ;)

[evan@absolute]

todd...not to get you down anymore but heres some comparison timing logs I took today. I dont do excel but you can check out the raw data.

4th gear run @ 23psi and I"m on timing 5(semi aggressive timing)...pulling 1-3* throughout with meth spraying at 5psi and up.

RPM MAF Timing
3400 72.4 33
3560 82.9 28.5
3680 90.8 26.2
3800 98.9 14.2
3960 110 12.7
4120 125 14
4280 141 12
4480 148 15
4640 158 17
4840 161 14
5000 161 14
5160 171 14
5320 174 14
5480 178 18
5640 181 15
5720 186 19.5
5840 184 20
5960 192 16

fuckin weaksause
2840 130.58 84.3 24.8
3040 145.92 87.1 21
3280 160.69 89.4 18.8
3520 180.03 93.3 20.3
3800 206.69 96.9 19.5
4040 202.19 100 21.8
4280 217.78 100 19.5
4520 225.81 100 23.3
4760 252.08 100 21.8
5040 264.25 100 21
5320 281.78 100 22.5
5560 305.64 100 21.8
5800 311.61 100 24
6040 327.36 100 23.3
6280 332.61 100 22.5
now that's some timing;)

[Yareka]

fuckin weaksause
2840 130.58 84.3 24.8
3040 145.92 87.1 21
3280 160.69 89.4 18.8
3520 180.03 93.3 20.3
3800 206.69 96.9 19.5
4040 202.19 100 21.8
4280 217.78 100 19.5
4520 225.81 100 23.3
4760 252.08 100 21.8
5040 264.25 100 21
5320 281.78 100 22.5
5560 305.64 100 21.8
5800 311.61 100 24
6040 327.36 100 23.3
6280 332.61 100 22.5
now that's some timing;)

If I was only running 20psi, I'd be making those numbers too:gt-ogb-spank:

[evan@absolute]

yea but then you' be making 250 to the wheels

[Yareka]

nope....made that at 14psi:)

[t0ad99]

okay - things are looking up! for the most part

throttle adapt was OK - so I drove it down the block and parked back at home.. let it sit on it's high idle of 1200... then here and there it would bounce around...1200 -1400... i was looking at different message readings.. then it occured to me it could be the maf or the TB.. what's easier.. I know!

popped the hood, squeezed my fingers to pop the hood, unplugged the maf and the idle went back to normal.. I think i have an extra sensor in my garage.. I'll drive it around a bit w/o it see what it does/doesn't do..

still odd about the RPM signal for my EBC.. I'll have to hit it w/ an ohmmeter and see what's up..

[Yareka]

my EBC.. I'll have to hit it w/ a hammer and see what's up..

good call...mbc ftw:upyeah:

[a4wdhybrid]

good call...mbc ftw:upyeah:
x2

[t0ad99]

;)

[t0ad99]

t-bolt clamps arrived.. maybe i'll go in the garage and look for that maf sesnor.... so lazy

[t0ad99]

technical jargon - t-clamp is.. clamped. Saturday going to get the beetle software re-flashed and try to meet up w/ travis and get a hold of a maf sesnor and run some new logs.

might try and run a pressure test tomorrow or maybe friday... we'll see..

Intermission!
3bay garage under way..

tree's have been marked for removal!
http://swimmingturtle.com/Random/trees1.jpg (http://swimmingturtle.com/Random/trees1.jpg)
http://swimmingturtle.com/Random/trees2.jpg (http://swimmingturtle.com/Random/trees2.jpg)

I'll post the drawings later once they are finalized and sent to me ;) We'll have to have a big party when it's all done, we'll have plenty of parking!!!

[t0ad99]

I did a pressure test - ended up popping the Inlet off of the turbo.. So I went back under the car and made sure all the inlet couplers were on solid.

I found a small leak from a vacum line I changed a few weeks back and also I added a small hose clamp to the actuator nipple.

I took it out for a spin and boost seems to be building much earlier running on the stock turbo pressure. Boost curves also seem to be more steady where as earlier it just didn't look or feel 100%.

Okay - now for the new MAF sensor and a reflash and we'll take it from there. Oh how do I hope this will be the end of the sillyness and the begining of something special. :)

Might need some NOS if I want my true dream of projectile vomitting from the baby seat.. :puking: hehehhe - not really, but it's funny to think about, and any excuse to use that cool barf icon.

have a good weekend and cross your fingers my shit is good to go..:gt-bb-chongin:

I'll report back w/ graphs later this weekend!

[t0ad99]

got a new MAF sensor today..

reflash is to be postponed, so logs & graphs are postponed as well.

to be continued...

edit: got bored, ran a quick 3rd gear run EBC off, just plain jane stock turbo boost.

from the boost curve, looks like things get kinda wierd when the TB closes 50%.. would the TB closing cause the bouncey boost ? - there aren't any leaks in the system.. Just checked it yesterday and made some adjustments.. It holds pressure quite well. I have a 2nd gear run that the TB closes 50%
- This was answered by a4wdhybrind Feb 12....

A few comparisons against my other logs, where I set 14lbs from the EBC instead of no EBC plain jane turbo boost(14lbs), it appears that the spool time is a little quicker.

take a look at the new graph for now.. next one I'll run when I have some different software.. I should totally run this same graph on my wife's 05 GTI and do an OEM comparison of requested boost.. Request vales on this software just look totally wierd.. just doesn't seem right you know?

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9.xls)


late night edit: did some data mining, looks like i'm about 6-8% too rich on average.. but i don't have a wide band.. so.. that's iffy..

next day edit: did a -8% fuel tweek via lw.. I'll fuel prob another -2% for a total of ~10% like a4wdhybrid suggested earlier in this thread.. I'll tweek that later today. I'll report my updates and post the current Beetlerun9_Minus8 and soon to be BeetleRun9_Minus10.

next day - mid day edit: new clean oil and a new clean air filter.. later today I'll drop the fuel another -2% for the -10% run w/ my clean new air filter too ;) I'll post a new reply with the graphs and charts..

[t0ad99]

www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9_minus8.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9_minus8.xls)
www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9_minus10.xls (http://www.swimmingturtle.com/Random/BeetleRun9_minus10.xls)

wireless lost connection, so my post was lost.. going to try again real quick here..

1.) can someone verify that I'm reading Block 31 correctly? I am assuming the first data cell is request and 2nd is actual. I see quite a bit of flux in what I would have thought to be requested when I change the fuel trim in LW. What I would assume would be actual, never really changes.. I'm assuming this because block 115 shows req first then actual. But block31 doesn't specify which is which.

okay quick run down on boost spool changes.

0% @ ~3380 = 6.92 - 2lbs per .9 (3200-3560)diff 360

-8% @ ~3440 = 7.30 - 2.2lbs per .9 seconds (3280-3600)diff 320
adjusted 11% 2.42lb || (add adjustment -1% HIGHer RPM) 2.40lbs per .9sec

-10% @ 3480 = 7.35 - 1.45lbs per .9 seconds (3200-3480)diff 280
adjusted 22% 1.89lb || (add adjustment +2% LOWer RPM) 1.91lbs per .9sec

-8% looks good.. compared to the rest..

thoughts & suggestions welcome.. - the math is all made up, I like to play w/ numbers.. I could be close or way off.. we'll see i guess...

changed fuel tweek back to -8% - it does feel more responsive.. but still the unknowing narrow band will complicate things a bit.. sure would be cool if there was a conversion.. I think i'll tool around and see if there are any such conversions..